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Old 12-20-2009, 07:05 PM   #1
Gazer
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Default Healthcare Bill

I find it concerning (to say the least) that more people in our country are concerned with the death of a mildly famous movie star then the fact that the Dem's are using bribery techniques to pass healthcare reform. In exchange for his vote, Senator Nelson is now getting 45 Million of our tax dollars to pay for medicaid expenses in his state of Nebraska... along with other things he required in order to get his vote. People are now selling their votes for State money, they did this with several people so far, like Louisiana Senator Landrieu who recently sold her vote on healthcare for $300 million in taxpayer money for her state. How is this an acceptable method of gaining votes?

I also find it interesting that they do these votes at 1am. Vote will take place in about 2 hours now. Why do they vote in the middle of the night? If this is the will of the people to have reform then shouldn't they be passing it in the middle of the day so they can put it up on the news as it's happening?
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Old 12-20-2009, 08:01 PM   #2
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Default Re: Healthcare Bill

typical media ADOS (Attention Defici ....Oh Shinny! )and politics as usual


Wait till next year the healthcare debate up till now is just a prequel to the HC changes that will happen in '10



Average people have average intellect ....not everybody is a scientist. things like how banking regulations work and HC 'reform' is beyond most people's daily comprehension. Heck, I was paying for some stuff at lowe's the other day and chatting with the cashier ..she didnt even realize that credit card Co. charge the merchants a fee for CC purchases and thats in part how CC companies finance their rewards points programs ...jeez I thought EVERYBODY knew that.
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Old 12-20-2009, 09:06 PM   #3
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Default Re: Healthcare Bill

The next few days will be very interesting, and very telling. Take notes people!
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Old 12-20-2009, 09:29 PM   #4
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Default Re: Healthcare Bill

The cloture vote passed 60-40... on to the house now....
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Old 12-20-2009, 10:04 PM   #5
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Default Re: Healthcare Bill

a photoshop from another forum on the subject titled "Splinter removal"




First I LOLed, then I became concerned because WTF?

Not to stir the pot on HC, but what guarantees do we have that the premiums we pay to our private insurers will do us any good when we need them?


All I want from gov HC is a tax credit for the premiums my wife and I pay already and some assurance that when god forbid something happens to one of us or our children our insurance will cover us one way or another no matter what the situation.

Gov HC could and should within reason help with birthing cost, childrens health ( i.e. such as denali cC ) and provide us all with a hole in the ground when we die. Everything else is up to debate ...maybe a VA type of HC for every working american who doesnt mind another line item on their paycheck right next to SS and medicare.

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Old 12-20-2009, 10:49 PM   #6
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Default Re: Healthcare Bill

Because if YOU pay for your health insurance, YOU have a right to contest any bill, invoicing, mis-charge, etc. If the government pays for your insurance, you WILL do it their way, or NO way...Period.

I have read every page and amendment offered (over 3200 pages), and it is more scary than Orwell's 1984 was in 1980...LOL

They have already began "conditioning" the public by telling women that they now do not need breast cancer screening and mammograms until they are 50! Men are supposed to wait for cancer screening and BPH testing until 50...LOL...

I have 3 personal friends, from a previous employer who would be DEAD if they used the new government suggested guidelines...DeeDee Jonrowe would be dead...Lance Armstrong would be DEAD...My cousin Carol died from cancer at 46!

You are correct though...it may be run like the VA..."Whenever we get room...space...or time..." LOL

Name one government run program that has not failed or nearly failed and had to be bailed out...Please...
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Old 12-21-2009, 05:23 AM   #7
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Default Re: Healthcare Bill

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Name one government run program that has not failed or nearly failed and had to be bailed out...Please...
The United States Military.
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Old 12-21-2009, 07:10 AM   #8
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Default Re: Healthcare Bill

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The United States Military.
If that was a privatized entity, the retention rate would be MUCH higher along with the wages and the 'after care'...LOL

But you are correct, the military is the one thing we will continue to print money to support...although, I certainly don't classify the military in the same category as the US Postal Service...LOL

Thank God for every servicemember...past, present and future!

PS-Ronald Reagan actually bailed the military funding from an all time low after Jimmy Carter, by diverting Millions of dollars from other programs...so...NEXT!
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Old 12-22-2009, 11:00 AM   #9
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Default Re: Healthcare Bill

They have thrown this wonderful wording into the healthcare reform bill...

"It shall not be in order in the senate or the house of representatives to consider any bill, resolution, amendment, or conference report that would repeal or otherwise change this subsection."

I believe this is unconstitutional and they're just trying to blow smoke since Republicans could likely gain the majority in Congress soon. Crooked basterds... atleast 75% of them IMO.
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Old 12-22-2009, 11:53 AM   #10
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Default Re: Healthcare Bill

woah wait a f-ing second. that CANNOT be legal.
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:40 PM   #11
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Default Re: Healthcare Bill

Yea, that is a load of poo. Supreme Court will have a field day with that. Kind of tells you what the rest of the bill is like right there...
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:44 PM   #12
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Default Re: Healthcare Bill

It's interesting. I was just watching Foxnews....

Guy was inteviewing some Democrat and talkin about Obama promising not to raise taxes. Even showed a bunch of Clips of him doing so. The guy said Obama should break the promise and raise taxes because the net savings of not paying for health unsurance would make up the difference of the raised taxes!!

So we now have to pay taxes on the income that would have been deducted pretax for insurance and we now have to pay new taxes? Net savings? Please tell me how.

Oh ya and for you Tanning junkies they're talking 10% tax on Tanning booths.....

Last edited by Bronco85; 12-22-2009 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:52 PM   #13
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Default Re: Healthcare Bill

Quote:
Originally Posted by southcentralpirate View Post
Not to stir the pot on HC, but what guarantees do we have that the premiums we pay to our private insurers will do us any good when we need them?
You have a contract with your insurance provider and our legal system is set up to deal with such things. Usually what happens is people do not bother to understand what coverages they have and just assume. We know where that goes right?

Quote:
All I want from gov HC is a tax credit for the premiums my wife and I pay already and some assurance that when god forbid something happens to one of us or our children our insurance will cover us one way or another no matter what the situation.
No matter what the situation? The insurance company pays your costs with other people premiums. Those other people may be able to think of scenarios where they do not want to pay for your costs.
And why should there be a tax credit? A tax credit, or even a deduction, is a subsidy. Why should this be subsidized?

Quote:
Gov HC could and should within reason help with birthing cost, childrens health ( i.e. such as denali cC ) and provide us all with a hole in the ground when we die. Everything else is up to debate ...maybe a VA type of HC for every working american who doesnt mind another line item on their paycheck right next to SS and medicare.
Why should the government be expected to provide health care? How do you determine what the government should and should not provide?
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:40 PM   #14
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Default Re: Healthcare Bill

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Originally Posted by Gazer View Post
Senator Nelson is now getting 45 Million of our tax dollars to pay for medicaid expenses in his state of Nebraska...
He's getting 100 million dollars to build a university hospital.
It's a sad day in history when congress passes a bill thatís not even constitutional. Where in are constitution does it say itís a right to have health care?? You canít make people get health insurance, you canít make people buy a new car, and you canít make homeless people buy a house. FDR tried to have a 2nd bill of rights passed into law. These were going to be rights.
-A job with a living wage
-Freedom from unfair competition and monopolies
-A home
-Medical care
-Education
-Recreation
The only thing we can hope for is that Americans wake up and vote out these treasonous that are working on both side of the isles and bring America back to a REPUBLIC.
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:55 PM   #15
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Default Re: Healthcare Bill

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Originally Posted by Bronco85 View Post

Oh ya and for you Tanning junkies they're talking 10% tax on Tanning booths.....
Yeah I saw that. What a load of crap, it starts with this and escalates. Any behavior they deem to be unhealthy or unfavorable will be taxed until you can barely afford it. Basically their way of outlawing things without actually outlawing them. What's next... taxing drinking, smoking, soda, unhealthy snacks, etc... they guide your behavior the direction they want it by hitting you where it hurts... the wallet.

Ammunition for "assault rifles" (lol) could definitely be one of them... seriously. They say "well shooting is dangerous and people could end up in the hospital from accidental shootings so we need to tax you to cover those extra hospital visits caused by this dangerous sport." I sure hope people wake and vote in politicians with some common sense... if there are any out there.
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Old 12-22-2009, 02:20 PM   #16
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Default Re: Healthcare Bill

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Old 12-22-2009, 02:21 PM   #17
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Default Re: Healthcare Bill

I bet more people end up in the hospital with shoulder injuries then people that actually get shot with a gun...
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Old 12-22-2009, 02:57 PM   #18
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Default Re: Healthcare Bill

They already tax the hell out of beer and cigarettes. Why.. because people won't stop purchasing those items. They tax "fun". Tax something everyone buys.
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Old 12-22-2009, 06:50 PM   #19
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Default Re: Healthcare Bill

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Originally Posted by samwe View Post
You have a contract with your insurance provider and our legal system is set up to deal with such things. Usually what happens is people do not bother to understand what coverages they have and just assume. We know where that goes right?

What I am thinking is more along the lines of when you sign up for certain coverage and you pay the premium for that coverage for X amount of time, you pay for it if you actually use it or not. So one day you receive notice that your insurer will not cover procedure A anymore.

Well for X amount of time you were paying a premium for that included procedure A, now it is unavailable ( or rather not paid for by your insurer anymore) your money you paid thinking that if you needed procedure A someday it would be available is now lost to the coffers of the insurance Co and you got nothing.

Certainly you could fight it, but what individual has the money to go up against an insurance corp? your choices become stick with what your getting or go find another insurance corp and hope they dont do the same thing.

Our insurance has cut back on some procedures and raised rates.


Quote:
Originally Posted by samwe View Post



No matter what the situation? The insurance company pays your costs with other people premiums. Those other people may be able to think of scenarios where they do not want to pay for your costs.
And why should there be a tax credit? A tax credit, or even a deduction, is a subsidy. Why should this be subsidized?


Individual subsidizes for HC? well why not? if there is going to be an increase in taxes for gov HC and I am already covered through other means, then yes give me credit plz. The government taxes corporations at a much higher rate than what I will likely ever have to pay. so let them tax the premiums the insurance corp gets from me to fund the government. In that way the money only gets taxed one time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by samwe View Post



Why should the government be expected to provide health care? How do you determine what the government should and should not provide?
I dont think people expect the government to provide HC like all other services the gov provides nowadays its voted on by our representatives. and the majority of the votes makes the rules, sometimes you get what you want and other times you dont. Its the democratic way.



I hope most of that made sense
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Old 12-22-2009, 07:16 PM   #20
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Default Re: Healthcare Bill

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Originally Posted by AKBearMoose View Post
If(the military) that was a privatized entity, the retention rate would be MUCH higher along with the wages and the 'after care'...LOL

I Hope your not thinking seriously that the defense of our country would be better off in the hands of private industry?

For an example of how a "privatized" military and a crooked, watered down government would turn out for a country you only need to look at how Afghanistan is doing.


This could also be used as an example for why most other developed nations have some sort of gov run HC rather than a for-profit HC system that we are currently using.


Remember when this happened? I dont, but I came across it the other week while surfing the net. who says democrats have a monopoly on gov HC BS
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Old 12-22-2009, 10:32 PM   #21
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Default Re: Healthcare Bill

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Remember when this happened? I dont, but I came across it the other week while surfing the net. who says democrats have a monopoly on gov HC BS
IIRC it was still a democratically controlled senate in 2003, and even if it wasn't it passed unanimously, so dems and republicans alike all voted for it. Democrats still have a monopoly on Gov't run health care horse pucky no matter how the liberals want so spin it....
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Old 12-23-2009, 12:57 AM   #22
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Default Re: Healthcare Bill

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Originally Posted by southcentralpirate View Post
Gov HC could and should within reason help with birthing cost, childrens health ( i.e. such as denali cC ) and provide us all with a hole in the ground when we die. Everything else is up to debate ...maybe a VA type of HC for every working american who doesnt mind another line item on their paycheck right next to SS and medicare.
Government could also pay to reconnect my arm when I cut it off, because that is just about as much of an accident as the birth of a baby.

The government takes way too much of my money in both corporate taxes on the things I buy and in the money I make. China, HK, Singapore, NK (yes, North korea) all are looking like good places right now. They are improving, steadily and we are going down the toilet.

The government ruined education with guaranteed student loans. They will NOT improve health care. I can't wait for the next revolution. I'll move to Korea while it happens, and come back when you guys have sorted it all out.
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Old 12-23-2009, 01:04 AM   #23
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Default Re: Healthcare Bill

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Originally Posted by Alaska ZJ View Post
The United States Military.
Of course it has failed, but not because it wants to... The military right now is almost a waste of money. It is not allowed to do its job.

When I read about the military before 1960 I am inspired. Now I am just confused...


And most of my paycheck comes from being an equipment supplier to the government and military. I make stuff that keeps the EOD guys safe.
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After seeing these tires I think that the 30 splines would get scared and go limp and not go in the housing! I think these tires have rockwells writen all over them!


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Old 12-23-2009, 01:06 AM   #24
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Default Re: Healthcare Bill

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Originally Posted by Gazer View Post
They have thrown this wonderful wording into the healthcare reform bill...

"It shall not be in order in the senate or the house of representatives to consider any bill, resolution, amendment, or conference report that would repeal or otherwise change this subsection."

I believe this is unconstitutional and they're just trying to blow smoke since Republicans could likely gain the majority in Congress soon. Crooked basterds... atleast 75% of them IMO.
President - Senators - House
-Limit to 2 terms
-Cap of $10,000 on ALL campaigns
-Never had a tax return above $500,000

THAT would fix the country.
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Quote:
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After seeing these tires I think that the 30 splines would get scared and go limp and not go in the housing! I think these tires have rockwells writen all over them!


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Old 12-23-2009, 09:10 AM   #25
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Default Re: Healthcare Bill

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Originally Posted by southcentralpirate View Post
I Hope your not thinking seriously that the defense of our country would be better off in the hands of private industry? Don't read so far into things...silly...I was talking about wages and benefits increasing retention under privatization...the military may not have been the best example...my bad

For an example of how a "privatized" military and a crooked, watered down government would turn out for a country you only need to look at how Afghanistan is doing. LOL...bad example...Afghanies would kill for a democracy or (true) representative government...oh wait, they are already...LOL


This could also be used as an example for why most other developed nations have some sort of gov run HC rather than a for-profit HC system that we are currently using. [Corrected version for you] This could also be used as an example for why a few normal and many under-developed nations have some sort of gov run HC rather than a for-profit HC system that we are currently using.


Remember when this happened? I dont, but I came across it the other week while surfing the net. who says democrats have a monopoly on gov HC BS
Your WIKI link proves my case PERFECTLY!!! Who introduced the bill, DEMOCRATS...Who was in charge of the House and Senate at that time? DEMOCRATS! And through the programs cost increases...DEMOCRATS. Who did they 'sway' to support them? Retirement state RINO's whose constituency supports medicare/medicaid...Thanks for posting, perfect example!
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