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Old 05-06-2005, 10:24 AM   #1
AlaskaToy
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Default 'nother ignorant exhaust question

Application: Toyota 3.0 V6. All stock, 2.25" exhaust and original cat.

Question: If I keep all 2.25" tube and use a 3" magnaflow, will torque be lost? Any other considerations?
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Old 05-06-2005, 11:00 AM   #2
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So it's "muffler and back" upgrade? I would GUESS, based on non-toyota experience, that the muffler is not part of the pulse-extraction built in to the stock exhaust. The freeing up of flow in the muffler itself should only help torque and hp, unlike a complete big exhaust, which can screw up low/midrange extraction.
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Old 05-06-2005, 11:12 AM   #3
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More like a muffler only upgrade. I can get a new 3" Magnaflow for 1/2 price and would use it to replace the $25 POS Thrush that is in there now that fell apart in 2 years. All pipe, fore and aft of the muffler will likely remain 2.25".

So you think it would be ok, huh?
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Old 05-06-2005, 11:16 AM   #4
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You shouldn't lose anything by going that route. Probably wont gain much either, but you won't change the backpressure enough to cause any undesireable effects.
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Old 05-06-2005, 11:24 AM   #5
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I did the same thing with my XJ, they didn't have any mufflers in my size, so they just used a muffler with a 3" pipe and piped it that way for a few inches to the cat...... Mine seems to run just fine that way. Now the only reason I ever have any back pressure problems is because of my stupid jeep headers crack. If I let it idle for a long time on the trail (like when I'm waiting for someone to get unstuck) If I let it sit there for a long time it starts to run like crap until I get it going again. I believe that it's most likely because of my cracked headers, cause when it happens the exhaust sound changes durastically.
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Old 05-06-2005, 11:25 AM   #6
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The whole idea of a certain level of "needed" backpressure comes from all, out high performance, headers only type of exhaust. If you have ANY pipe and muffler attached beyond the end of your collecter/exhaust manifold then you have all the back pressure you need. There is nothing you can do to your exhaust system that will hurt this (in terms of reducing restriction... you can of course restrict it too much...). If you are looking for performance, open up the flow as much as you can.
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Old 05-06-2005, 12:01 PM   #7
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yeah, since he isn't replacing the whole exhaust system, he will not have any changes to the exhaust pulse "extraction" (I am sleepy, correct me if I am stating this wrong ). It's really obvious when you go from a nice, torque-inducing small exhaust and go drasticly oversize. Samurai have these teeny, tiny exhausts, with a tailpipe worth of an RV generator. Swapping in a 4-2-1 header and 2" exhaust you get more horsepower, but often kill the low and midrange and can't pull the hills you used to be able to run up in 5th without downshifting to 4th or even 3rd to get up in rpm.
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Old 05-09-2005, 11:01 PM   #8
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i put the dynamax on my wifes 3.0 4runner and it was a vast improvement over the stock junk . go for it dont look back . big difference with the 3.0 in mid range and top end .
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Old 05-11-2005, 01:46 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopey Joe
The whole idea of a certain level of "needed" backpressure comes from all, out high performance, headers only type of exhaust. If you have ANY pipe and muffler attached beyond the end of your collecter/exhaust manifold then you have all the back pressure you need. There is nothing you can do to your exhaust system that will hurt this (in terms of reducing restriction... you can of course restrict it too much...). If you are looking for performance, open up the flow as much as you can.
Hmmm... I dont know if I'm with you on this one. If i bolt a full collecter-back 4"+ exaust from a cummins onto my 4.0, Im not going to screw up the back pressure? You say that ANY pipe and muffler will provide the needed back pressure. That is essentially saying that you can run 6" tubing off of your header, and wont notice a loss in performance/torque.
Not saying I'm an expert on this, cause Im not, but wouldnt extrememly oversized exhaust plumbing be condusive to burnt valves? I would think this would be similar to running an open header. Help me out here.
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Old 05-11-2005, 01:53 AM   #10
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i do agree on the first part of 4 inch stuff ,RT8 ,but the not the burnt valve stuff. have you ever run an engine even with nothing just a bare head, no manifold? i have andit doesnt make sense,youd burn all the stuff in the fender well area ,no?
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Old 05-11-2005, 10:24 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTCUL8
Hmmm... I dont know if I'm with you on this one. If i bolt a full collecter-back 4"+ exaust from a cummins onto my 4.0, Im not going to screw up the back pressure? You say that ANY pipe and muffler will provide the needed back pressure. That is essentially saying that you can run 6" tubing off of your header, and wont notice a loss in performance/torque.
Not saying I'm an expert on this, cause Im not, but wouldnt extrememly oversized exhaust plumbing be condusive to burnt valves? I would think this would be similar to running an open header. Help me out here.

Yep, I Am essentially saying that you could run 6 inch tubing off of your header with no performance problems. You can run NO pipe off of the header and not see any perfomance or longevity problems.

By the time the exhaust gas gets to the end of the header it has seen all of the restriction that can possibly serve any purpose. If performance is the goal and the only consideration, then open headers are the answer. Exhaust pipe and muflers are just to get the noise and fumes out from under the vehicle and to reduce the noise levels.

If you ran NO exhaust manifold, but simply dumped the exhaust right out of the port, then you would encounter problems with less than ideal (no enhancment from the pulses of previous exhaust charges) scavenging and higher chance of burnt exhaust valves.
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Old 05-11-2005, 09:53 PM   #12
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i own a couple toyotas and my experience tells me toyotas need some back pressure but 2.5 will not hurt you at all , but help wake it up a bit . i have found that with bigger(larger than 2.5 and even open exhaust IE straight pipes tend to foul out plugs rather than burn valves . your fuel injection can't adjust that far out and will be dumping fuel out the pipe . but if you have good valve job and go bigger valves put a little bump in the cam the bigger pipes will really wake the 3.0 up ...
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Old 05-11-2005, 10:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopey Joe
Yep, I Am essentially saying that you could run 6 inch tubing off of your header with no performance problems. You can run NO pipe off of the header and not see any perfomance or longevity problems.

By the time the exhaust gas gets to the end of the header it has seen all of the restriction that can possibly serve any purpose. If performance is the goal and the only consideration, then open headers are the answer. Exhaust pipe and muflers are just to get the noise and fumes out from under the vehicle and to reduce the noise levels.

If you ran NO exhaust manifold, but simply dumped the exhaust right out of the port, then you would encounter problems with less than ideal (no enhancment from the pulses of previous exhaust charges) scavenging and higher chance of burnt exhaust valves.
I disagree - straight pipes and headers are not always better than a tuned exhaust - what I understand is that there are exhaust "waves" in the tube, and variables in length and diameter effect a scavenging effect that "tuning" can take advantage of.

However - I can be wrong - I have done it before. I sure of it

Edit: you know, I see you said that -but I think it makes a difference past the end of the header.
How about the cross over exhaust? you know, two into one into two - those improve midrange torque, and are halfway to the back of the rig.

Then Supertrapp comes to mind.....
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Last edited by deepmud; 05-11-2005 at 10:25 PM.
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Old 05-11-2005, 11:22 PM   #14
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A cross over pipe is to increase the effeciency of the muffler and exhaust piping. It equalizes the flow and pressure between the two to let the highs and lows created by the pulses of exhaust blend together and let the highs from each use ALL of the system, not just their half (the highs and lows don't happen at the same time in each half of the system). The scavenging effect has already happened by the time the exhaust pulse is past the collector so the crossover pipe is all about increasing flow in a given system.
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Old 05-11-2005, 11:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fix-It
i own a couple toyotas and my experience tells me toyotas need some back pressure but 2.5 will not hurt you at all , but help wake it up a bit . i have found that with bigger(larger than 2.5 and even open exhaust IE straight pipes tend to foul out plugs rather than burn valves . your fuel injection can't adjust that far out and will be dumping fuel out the pipe . but if you have good valve job and go bigger valves put a little bump in the cam the bigger pipes will really wake the 3.0 up ...

Open exhaust on an EFI Toyota probably means that your O2 sensor was taken out of the equation. You can watch the gas gauge drop while going down the road in this situation. BTDT.

It doesn't have anything to do with the effeciency of the exhaust. If you have a 22RE you could use one of the early exhaust manifold with the O2 sensor in the manifold, or install an O2 sensor in your header collector and this symptom would disappear.

But why anyone would bother to run open headers/manifold on a 22RE in a 4x4 rig is beyond me.

I'd rather drive a rig with an old school big block and openheaders than a stone stock 22Re with open exhaust. That is one miserable nasty sounding ride.
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Old 05-12-2005, 11:04 AM   #16
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he is running a 3.0 v6 . wich is all stock running a 2.5 will help that engine alot . it has done wonders to mine . i was not talking about taking the oxy sensor out just taking a bigger pipe or muffler /cat out . the stock computer is not programmed for bigger exhaust and it will try to run rich with anything over 2.5 pipe . wich is why most usually get it reprogrammed , after installing a good header/exhaust combo so you can get the most out of it on a dyno . but i know of noone here in sqarebanks who has one .

it is my opinion that nothing beats a good tuned exhaust for a yota .
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