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Old 01-19-2006, 05:53 PM   #476
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Default Re: Should have never used pipe.... My cage fell off!

Quote:
weld reliefs for more penetration...

I would NEVER weld the cap in a shaft that was going to see street use. Welding will cause the cap to shrink, causing reduced clearance for the needle bearings, and will also burn up some of the grease. Not as much of a problem with greasable u-joints, but I always run non greasable joints for that last little bit of strength. Some, if not all Spicer u-joints have a plastic thrust washer/bushing in the top of the cap to prevent the needles from galling on the cap. Welding WILL melt this washer. No, im not talking about the seals.

The only reason I did this was to make these junk shafts useable for one more goaround. If the shafts arent already egged out, installing full circle C-Clips should be enough to prevent most carnage.

In this picture, you can see the little grey plastic washer in the bottom of the cap. Its only about 1/16" wide, but you can see it in there if you look close. The picture after this one will show the washer outside of the cap, so you can get a better idea of what you are looking for....

I believe this is a Spicer 5-332X u-joint, so not all of these washers will look the same. I havent destroyed an SPL55-3X yet, so I cannot attest to what the washers in them look like. They appear to have a much smaller ID so that the end of the cross rides on them, along with the needles.

This is a Spicer SPL55-3X. Note the Large body, small grease hole (not a through hole), and the smooth transition from the journal to the body. This joint uses a three piece seal design that I feel is FAR superior to all other u-joint seals I have experiance with.

This picture shows how much larger the cap is on a SPL55 vs a 5-332. This allows for the superior seal, and a much longer needle bearing.

Also note in this picture (posted above) the style of C-Clip that is being installed to prevent the cap from comming out. Some people are tack welding the open end of this clip to prevent it from popping off. I feel this is unnecessary.

I had my caps welded with 316 SS, but many people use what ever wire they have in their mig. Mostly ER70-6. If I hadn't reason to go visit my old man, I would have installed some .023 ER70-6 in my Esab Mig welder, and welded the caps in with some 75/25 Argon Co2 mix. Care must be taken to minimize the height of the bead, since the axles are already a tight fit through the knuckle.

Here is what im doing to an old spicer 5-332X. I

The bushings are Sintered Oilite. (oil impregnated bronze) The fit between the bushing and cap is a slight interference fit, and pressed in with some loctite 271 high strength thread retaining compound.

Here are a few pics detailing how the machine work necessary for fitting full circle snap rings. There are other ways to do this, but this was the fastest with the tooling I had available.

This shows how the snap ring will ride on the yoke. I could have removed much less material as you can see, but using such a larg radius will prevent the modification from being a stress riser.
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Old 01-19-2006, 05:56 PM   #477
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Default Re: Should have never used pipe.... My cage fell off!

sorry the pics are all out of order, but the thread they were originally posted in had all the pics linked to the old and currently non-existant alaska offroad board.
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Old 01-22-2006, 09:43 PM   #478
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Default Re: Should have never used pipe.... My cage fell off!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sledneck
It may look good if you cut it off at the line...i dont know just my .02
that just might give it too much of a "frosty's manche look".... not that thats a bad thing but i think thats why brook painted the freak black cuz frosty copied him with the orange
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Old 01-29-2006, 07:23 PM   #479
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Default Re: Should have never used pipe.... My cage fell off!

Ever since I built the front wristed radius arm suspension I have not had the proper caster. Not even close. I rolled the pinion up to gain drive shaft clearance and reduce driveshaft angle, but never did a cut and turn because the hydraulic steering let me get away with it. Well.... after my powerloc destroyed the old housing I figured if I ever wanted to correct the caster now was the time.

It took about 30 min each to grind the welds out, then another 2 hours to turn and re-weld. My arms are gassed and my hands are fumbling all over the keyboard.

To secure the axle I welded the jack stands to the table, then used two 2" ratchet straps to hold the axle down to the stands. I welded some steel plate over the area where I wanted to strike the C to prevent damaging it. In one of the pictures there is two hammers, the smaller one was completely worthless. The bigger one still required every effort I had. If a person had access to two oxy/act torches it might save some effort with the sledge hammer. Quick and High Volume heat is key. I had to heat the C well over 500 degrees (thats where my IR temp gun quits reading).
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Last edited by bgreen776; 01-29-2006 at 07:24 PM.
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Old 01-30-2006, 06:47 PM   #480
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Default Re: Should have never used pipe.... My cage fell off!

Bracing the C's incase I decide to mount the coilovers to them:

1/8" A36 plate Tig'd on with ER70s2
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Old 01-30-2006, 06:50 PM   #481
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Default Re: Should have never used pipe.... My cage fell off!

Looks good.
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Old 01-30-2006, 06:50 PM   #482
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Default Re: Should have never used pipe.... My cage fell off!

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Old 01-30-2006, 06:57 PM   #483
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Default Re: Should have never used pipe.... My cage fell off!

looks alot better than the one on the floor
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Old 02-05-2006, 08:52 PM   #484
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Default Re: Should have never used pipe.... My cage fell off!

well....


The C's are gonna bet re-cut and un-turned. lol. I decided to lower the front end several inches but with the pinion rotated up so far I have major clearance issues. I'll do that later.

AND!!!....

no more wristed radius arm!

lowering the front of the chassis creates very limited room for a panhard. In order to fit the hydraulic steering and the bumpstops I've never been able to install, I started looking for ways to change things up a bit. I dont have any complaints with the wristed arm suspension but I just couldnt find a way to get a nice long panhard and still fit the rest of the suspension and steering, so....

I'm going to fabricate a double triangulated 4 link. XX. The lowers will be the same basic configuration as before, but the uppers will be splayed way out on the chassis. The passenger side upper will be mounted to the side of the diff housing.

Here is a few pictures of the new, and 4th rendition of my passenger side control arm. (bent the first, straightened it out, and braced it with angle, then bent it again, and finally made a trussed version which held up VERY well, and now the latest change for a new suspension design)
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Old 02-05-2006, 09:07 PM   #485
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Default Re: Should have never used pipe.... My cage fell off!

The main tube is 1/8" mild steel rec tube. The bottom was cut off to form the truss shaped contour then a new bottom out of 1/4" mild steel (A36) plate was welded on. The top is the rec tube 1/8" with a piece of 1/4" mild steel (A36) 1.5" plate welded along it. The goal here was to get as much material as far from the centroidal axis as possible. If you remember correctly, on the drivers side arm, I used 3/16" on the bottom, left the top alone, then plated the sides with 1/8. There is no way Im going to calc out the difference in strength between the two, but theoretically this should be a bit stronger.

One thing to take note of is the additional material wrapped around the O.D. of the bushing sleeve. My lower axle end bushing sleeve was an oval, so this should prevent that from happening again. As you can see, I'm re-using as much of the old arms as possible. (All the threaded mechanisms and bushing sleeves.)
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Old 02-05-2006, 10:09 PM   #486
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Default Re: Should have never used pipe.... My cage fell off!

been awhile since ive looked at this thread, let alone been on the board, looking good though!!!
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Old 02-06-2006, 08:28 PM   #487
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Default Re: Should have never used pipe.... My cage fell off!

Upper control arms are 1.5" sch 40 a53 pipe with ORD poly bushings at the frame end and R.E. cartridge joints at the axle end. I bent the uppers so I would be sure to clear the tire at full lock. The bend is only 13* but since they will be in compression when going forward I will add some additional bracing so I dont propagate the bend under extreme loads.
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Old 02-06-2006, 08:32 PM   #488
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Default Re: Should have never used pipe.... My cage fell off!

gnarley! looks like you are gonna have some fun this summer. testin out that stuff.
cool.
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Old 02-12-2006, 07:41 PM   #489
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Default Re: Should have never used pipe.... My cage fell off!

I sure hope so! It will be interesting to see first hand the difference between the wristed radius arm and the XX dual triangulated 4 link. It will also be interesting to see what a few inches lower ride height will do.

The front suspension design is complete as far as the links and their mounts are concerned. The mounts are all 3/16" A36 plate, and the lowers have 4140 weld washers Tig'd on with ER70S3 like the rear. Only diff here was that on the rear I welded the washers on with 309SS in an effort to prevent cracking due to the dissimilar metals. So far I prefer the ER70S3 I think.
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Old 02-12-2006, 07:47 PM   #490
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Default Re: Should have never used pipe.... My cage fell off!

Last one to show the triangulation. Ignore the angles created by the bent arm. The angle is determined by the line connecting similar points on each connection point. (center of the bushing to the center of the cartridge joint)

Also... notice the upper and lower arms are pretty much parrallel when viewed from the side in the pictures above. Another interesting aspect... infinite instant center. IE no anti-dive.


edit: oh... also notice the caster. lol. only took 2 hrs this time. The first side went just like the last, but for the second (pass side) I welded a peice of pipe from the short tube down to the table to keep the axle from rotating and to keep from shearing the rosette welds in the diff. I heated the C up till it was holding a dark cherry red, had to crank up the pressure on the bottles, then smacked it with a sledge. The **** thing spun free! lol. I only hit it once, and ended up having to rotate is back! So, my best advice at this point is to use two torches if possible.
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Old 02-18-2006, 06:18 PM   #491
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Default Re: Should have never used pipe.... My cage fell off!

The first point of contact during suspension compression was the exhaust. I was going to order up some exhaust donuts from http://www.chassisshop.com/ but I had a moment of clarity and just did the best I could with a bunch of used junk I had around the shop. I spent about 2 hours trying to lay out templates so I could precisely cut pie shapes out of the large radius bends to make small radius bends, then gave up and just started to sketch them by eye. I used a 4.5" grinder with a cut off wheel and went to town. A few hours later I ended up with a good half inch of clearance between the pinion yoke and the exhaust, making the next contact point the diff housing and oil filter.
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Last edited by bgreen776; 02-18-2006 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 02-18-2006, 06:29 PM   #492
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Default Re: Should have never used pipe.... My cage fell off!

So now I have 4 options.
  1. Notch the housing to clear the oil filter
  2. Purchase a high output oil pump for a 425 that rotates the filter more toward the center of the engine
  3. Machine a wedge adapter to angle the filter up more
  4. Machine or purchase a remote filter adapter kit
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Old 02-18-2006, 07:00 PM   #493
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Default Re: Should have never used pipe.... My cage fell off!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgreen
So now I have 4 options.
  1. Notch the housing to clear the oil filter
  2. Purchase a high output oil pump for a 425 that rotates the filter more toward the center of the engine
  3. Machine a wedge adapter to angle the filter up more
  4. Machine or purchase a remote filter adapter kit
Bump stops?
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Old 02-18-2006, 07:01 PM   #494
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Default Re: Should have never used pipe.... My cage fell off!

#4
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Old 02-18-2006, 07:16 PM   #495
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Default Re: Should have never used pipe.... My cage fell off!

ya, bumpstops for sure. but I want as much uptravel as possible with as low a ride height as possible, so I need to do something about the oil filter. Pussing out now is not an option.

#4 is prolly what I will do, but I need to research the prices first. I'd rather shave the top of the diff than spend a C note on a remote filter kit that I dont have anywhere to mount. I will also be looking into what it will take to machine something tomorrow.
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Old 02-18-2006, 10:29 PM   #496
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Default Re: Should have never used pipe.... My cage fell off!

My remote oil filter setup was $50 from Summit.
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Old 02-18-2006, 10:47 PM   #497
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Default Re: Should have never used pipe.... My cage fell off!

Mine was same.
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Old 02-20-2006, 08:51 AM   #498
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Default Re: Should have never used pipe.... My cage fell off!

The picture of the remote filter adapter shows the axle at full compression, with the steering and the upper control arms contacting the frame. The adapter is part of a PermaCool kit I got from Schucks, #10695.

The second picture (of the bumpstop) shows the suspension 2.75" from contacting the frame. The bumpstops will have a hard stop preventing the last 3/4" or so of travel to prevent contact.
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Old 02-26-2006, 06:10 PM   #499
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Default Re: Should have never used pipe.... My cage fell off!

EEK! I cut the front of the cage off.
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Old 02-26-2006, 06:12 PM   #500
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Default Re: Should have never used pipe.... My cage fell off!

Mocking up the coilover mounts...
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