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Old 07-30-2008, 09:58 AM   #1
TonyM
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Default Usergroup Division

As many of you know, I have been getting banned from this site for the last four years or so, and on many occasions, because of conflicts that could have been handled without the nonsense that ultimately lead to me (And others) getting banned. It is no accident or sneak tactic that I am back. The bottom line is we have an issue in our “Community” and it needs to be dealt with.

Some of you may not recognize this issue but I promise it is there and it isn’t getting any better (It seems to be getting worse actually). There seems to be a few groups of “Recreational Outdoor User Groups” that have been “at” each other for any myriad of reasons… most of which seem to be minor personal conflicts that I believe can be resolved.

The purpose of this thread is to find out…

A.
What the problems are and bring them to light, no matter how self centered, ridiculous, or outlandish they may be. (Or in some cases, legitimate issues that need to be dealt with).

B.
What steps need to be taken to resolve issues that are out there. Maybe this is a case where there are just a few people that refuse to deal with issues out there, and continue to contaminate the overall groups goal by running off at the neck. Example: There are plenty of folks out there that I am sure do not like me… I would encourage you to let your issue be known to me (Privately) , and we will resolve our differences one way or another, without hindering the overall purpose of our community as a whole.

C.
What can we do to sustain a sense of unity that works for everyone? There will always be conflicts, but if we can come to some kind of standardized way of dealing with these conflicts with local members of our “Community”, we should be able to avoid the division that we are experiencing now.


There is more to this that I’m sure will come out but that is the intention of this thread.. I apologize for the rant… but its got to be dealt with before it gets any further out of hand IMHO…

It is a big state we live in with lots of trails and the overall user group is growing. The sooner we can get past this (Animosity, division, gap, pick your word) between groups, the better it will be for everyone who is out there.
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:17 AM   #2
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Default Re: Usergroup Division

I wouldn't say that you and I have gone round-n-round about issues, but we have our differing opinion on spring time wheeling. Obviously it's a touchy subject and I can certainly see your point about utilizing trails. Basically, if the trail is there and it is legal to wheel it, you have the right to do so. Correct?

While I do agree with that logic, in my opinion, there is a difference between can and should. I'm smart enough to realize that there is no point fighting for our trails if we don't use them. I do believe that discretion should be used when trails are more prone to a lasting footprint directly related to our use as a community. A lot of times, we as a group are simply guilty by association simply because we drive OHVs.

I'll PM you Tony about personal issues and won't get into past arguements anymore in this thread. I simply wanted to point out one of the larger arguements that have occurred between members of this board.
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:20 AM   #3
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Default Re: Usergroup Division

While your intentions appear to be good, I see this thread having some major ups and downs.

I see the biggest problems being that there are pot-stirrers and those with thin skin. Good luck!
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:38 AM   #4
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Default Re: Usergroup Division

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsub View Post
While your intentions appear to be good, I see this thread having some major ups and downs.

I see the biggest problems being that there are pot-stirrers and those with thin skin. Good luck!

I see his intentions as being a good thing to help fix a headache that we all have to deal with...
Lets deal with the pot stirrers as thay come here to post..
Thin skin might just have to grown thinker skin or let it go
We as a group we need to get this problem fixed not just for this board but for the trails and our love for this state trasil system..
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Last edited by 00TJ; 07-30-2008 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:41 AM   #5
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Default Re: Usergroup Division

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Lets deal with the pot stirrers as thay come here to post..
Thin skin might just have to grown thinker skin or let it go
We as a group need to get this problem fixed not just for this board but for the trails and our love for this state trasil system..
i agree, we need to realize we can have different opinions and still get along, you know like the old saying "agree to disagree"
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:47 AM   #6
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Default Re: Usergroup Division

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Originally Posted by BadCo View Post
I wouldn't say that you and I have gone round-n-round about issues, but we have our differing opinion on spring time wheeling. Obviously it's a touchy subject and I can certainly see your point about utilizing trails. Basically, if the trail is there and it is legal to wheel it, you have the right to do so. Correct?

While I do agree with that logic, in my opinion, there is a difference between can and should. I'm smart enough to realize that there is no point fighting for our trails if we don't use them. I do believe that discretion should be used when trails are more prone to a lasting footprint directly related to our use as a community. A lot of times, we as a group are simply guilty by association simply because we drive OHVs.

I'll PM you Tony about personal issues and won't get into past arguements anymore in this thread. I simply wanted to point out one of the larger arguements that have occurred between members of this board.
Kurt, I see your point and I do agree that trails that are overly sensitive in the spring should be avoided. Trails like Baldi, Knik, King River, Wishbone, and Buffalo Mine have been there for years and will always get wheeled early. However, trails like Purches, Eska, and other sensitive trails I think should be avoided until they have dried out a bit. Maybe we can (As a group) decide which trails should be avoided during certain times of year, and maybe a comprimise could be reached that everyone is ok with...

PM sent by the way

Last edited by TonyM; 07-30-2008 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:49 AM   #7
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Default Re: Usergroup Division

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Originally Posted by bigsub View Post
While your intentions appear to be good, I see this thread having some major ups and downs.

I see the biggest problems being that there are pot-stirrers and those with thin skin. Good luck!
Well ups and downs is what I'm after. Problems need to be surfaced so that they can be resolved. I have a few PMs I need to send, and I'm sure I will recieve a few. The intent here is to rectify, and resolve, so that the rest of us don't have to deal with the result of not doing so.
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:08 AM   #8
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Default Re: Usergroup Division

Kurt can't be the only out there with an issue that needs resolving...


This is intended to be like a staging area... make your piece heard, and deal with it in PMs, or a phone call, or whatever. If we can atleast try to meet somewhere as close to the middle as we can, we're all going to be better off.

I have heard some people don't evenwant to go wheeling anymore because of conflicts that seem to still be ongoing.... thats pretty sad

Last edited by TonyM; 07-30-2008 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:12 AM   #9
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Default Re: Usergroup Division

I think your on the right path here Tony. You should be commended for your efforts.
I have a question for the Meet & Greet organizer's. What happened to having a sit down with reps from all the clubs to help iron out some of these issues? I thought that was going to be an event that took place at these years M&G. I think its a good idea and I would like to set it up if we can all agree on a time and place.
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:13 AM   #10
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Default Re: Usergroup Division

I guess I just got elected board a$$hole by default!
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:22 AM   #11
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Default Re: Usergroup Division

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I guess I just got elected board a$$hole by default!
There are plenty more Board A$$holes I'm sure... You and I being just a few of many
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:25 AM   #12
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Default Re: Usergroup Division

I have an issue with people who must make negative comments to trip reports. You guys know who you are. There are a few of you that do it to almost every trip report thread. I feel that if you have an issue with a post or with the thread it should be taken to P.M.'s and hopefully dealt with. The more negativity we spread in the open the more its going to drive us apart and create hard feeling. I know that personally after reading a few post that have responded to some of my personal or Denali Off Road Clubs trip reports, I have said to my self and some of my friends F**k These AssH**e's. That not the path we should go down but somtimes it's just hard to keep my E-cool .
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:29 AM   #13
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Default Re: Usergroup Division

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Originally Posted by branr1 View Post
I have an issue with people who must make negative comments to trip reports. You guys know who you are. There are a few of you that do it to almost every trip report thread. I feel that if you have an issue with a post or with the thread it should be taken to P.M.'s and hopefully dealt with. The more negativity we spread in the open the more its going to drive us apart and create hard feeling. I know that personally after reading a few post that have responded to some of my personal or Denali Off Road Clubs trip reports, I have said to my self and some of my friends F**k These AssH**e's. That not the path we should go down but somtimes it's just hard to keep my E-cool .
In addition to that, if you have a problem with a trip report that has been posted, PM a mod maybe for a second opinion before you post something that is not conducive to the trip report.
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Old 07-30-2008, 12:16 PM   #14
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Default Re: Usergroup Division

Quote:
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In addition to that, if you have a problem with a trip report that has been posted, PM a mod maybe for a second opinion before you post something that is not conducive to the trip report.
Good point. There is also the "report bad post" icon at the bottom left of each post that can be clicked.
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Old 07-30-2008, 12:28 PM   #15
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Default Re: Usergroup Division

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Good point. There is also the "report bad post" icon at the bottom left of each post that can be clicked.
Thats true, maybe there isn't enough emphasis on using it though. Maybe there should be consequences for not using it before you post something negative in a trip report?
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Old 07-30-2008, 12:46 PM   #16
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Default Re: Usergroup Division

Quote:
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I guess I just got elected board a$$hole by default!
Na Kurt you are top notch guy..alot of folks just hear rumors or take things the wrong way (THIN SKIN)..I have known and have talked to you around some 8 or 9 years now. I can say you are very easy going, honest and straight forward guy, you have bent over backwards to help our sport and 4x4community in more ways then i can list here. alot of folks never even meet you in person and have just made that assumtion from a computer screen & keyboard.

The truth always comes out in the end...
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Set the example in everything you do in your sport."Post Responsibly" "Ride Responsibly" "Camp Responsibly" "Drink Responsibly". Behave like EVERYONE in the world is watching and evaluating your actions. Have fun, yes. But realize we are threatened like never before. I've never seen so many closures and potential closures on the horizon. Please take heed and act now

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Old 07-30-2008, 01:04 PM   #17
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Default Re: Usergroup Division

Quote:
Originally Posted by branr1 View Post
I have an issue with people who must make negative comments to trip reports. You guys know who you are. There are a few of you that do it to almost every trip report thread. I feel that if you have an issue with a post or with the thread it should be taken to P.M.'s and hopefully dealt with. The more negativity we spread in the open the more its going to drive us apart and create hard feeling. I know that personally after reading a few post that have responded to some of my personal or Denali Off Road Clubs trip reports, I have said to my self and some of my friends F**k These AssH**e's. That not the path we should go down but somtimes it's just hard to keep my E-cool .

Very good point..also when photos do get removed people just need to say ok thats the way it is and respect that even if you have a difference of why...
People just need to becareful what you post and I think 98% of the talk about a trip report will stop..
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Set the example in everything you do in your sport."Post Responsibly" "Ride Responsibly" "Camp Responsibly" "Drink Responsibly". Behave like EVERYONE in the world is watching and evaluating your actions. Have fun, yes. But realize we are threatened like never before. I've never seen so many closures and potential closures on the horizon. Please take heed and act now

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Old 07-30-2008, 01:05 PM   #18
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Default Re: Usergroup Division

I thought alot of you all were ******s until I actually met some of you. The remainder are still ******s though.
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Old 07-30-2008, 01:19 PM   #19
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Default Re: Usergroup Division

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I thought alot of you all were ******s until I actually met some of you. The remainder are still ******s though.
Have I ever meet you? If I did am I still a Hole?
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Old 07-30-2008, 01:22 PM   #20
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Default Re: Usergroup Division

Yes, we have met, and no you are not an ahole. A little strange, but not an ahole.
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Old 07-30-2008, 01:30 PM   #21
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Default Re: Usergroup Division

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Yes, we have met, and no you are not an ahole. A little strange, but not an ahole.
Cool I like strange..
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Set the example in everything you do in your sport."Post Responsibly" "Ride Responsibly" "Camp Responsibly" "Drink Responsibly". Behave like EVERYONE in the world is watching and evaluating your actions. Have fun, yes. But realize we are threatened like never before. I've never seen so many closures and potential closures on the horizon. Please take heed and act now

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Old 07-30-2008, 01:32 PM   #22
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Default Re: Usergroup Division

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyM View Post
Kurt can't be the only out there with an issue that needs resolving...


This is intended to be like a staging area... make your piece heard, and deal with it in PMs, or a phone call, or whatever. If we can atleast try to meet somewhere as close to the middle as we can, we're all going to be better off.

I have heard some people don't evenwant to go wheeling anymore because of conflicts that seem to still be ongoing.... thats pretty sad

Yes..

Please post up..we have alot bigger issues to start to deal with...
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Set the example in everything you do in your sport."Post Responsibly" "Ride Responsibly" "Camp Responsibly" "Drink Responsibly". Behave like EVERYONE in the world is watching and evaluating your actions. Have fun, yes. But realize we are threatened like never before. I've never seen so many closures and potential closures on the horizon. Please take heed and act now

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Old 07-30-2008, 02:15 PM   #23
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Default Re: Usergroup Division

This is going in a good direction so far, keep up the communication.



We do need to stress the use of the report post button, do that before you open your mouth. If you hit the button you can attach a note with it, in that note say your peace. The decision making will be done based on the situation. If it seems your reasoning is not sound or just crazy it will not be acted on, but if you make a good point things will be taken care off.


There has been allot of good come out of this webforum. I hate to see people get mad and leave or get banned by shuffling there toes over the line.

I have meet abunch of you guys and hope to meet more.
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Old 07-30-2008, 03:48 PM   #24
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Default Re: Usergroup Division

I am really surprised that we haven't heard from other people. Maybe there isn't as much of a conflict or "Usergroup Division" out there as some thought..

However, I am curious about the meeting that was referenced by Ryan.... Why wasn't there a meeting at M&G regarding club strife..... was there not one because everyone realised that there actually is no club strife?
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Old 07-30-2008, 03:48 PM   #25
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Default Re: Usergroup Division

Oustanding post started Tony, Honestly , shows good will and all that stuff especially overcoming divides or persevied (sp?) divides . PROPS to you on a good post

Rick

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