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Prepared for Alaska!? Are you prepared? How have you hedged your bets for survival in Alaska? All threads related to being ready for the worst Alaska has to dish out belong in this forum.

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Old 10-13-2010, 06:37 PM   #26
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Default Re: Earthquakes!

Here is a great account from the Alpha Battery (now Kincaide Park) from the '64 quake.

Disaster!


No description of site Point is complete without a description of the events surrounding the great Good Friday earthquake of March, 1964. This devastating natural disaster resulted in trememdous destruction and loss of life in the Anchorage area and site Point was by no means unscathed. In fact the battery suffered extreme damage and a disaster of possibly greater dimension was narrowly avoided. Anyone who has visited Earthquake Park or driven on Minnesota Avenue in Anchorage can see how the landscape was affected.
Even the utility of Fire Island was altered. I recall hearing that the Island had sunk as much as 70 feet during the quake. (The drop off at Minnesota Avenue is at least that much.) After the quake one of the airstrips at Fire Island became perpetually underwater at high tide. During my stay in the late 1970's there was a large stretch of mud but there was always a wide span of water between site Point and the island even at the lowest tides. One responder notes:
"I know that - before the earthquake - at low tide, it was just mud between Campbell Point and Fire Island and a person could walk (maybe) between the two places."

The following is from a series of communications with the man who was the A battery executive officer at the time:
"Ground motion in an earthquake can be multi directional - particularly during the large initial quake. The damaged and torn missile skins provided ample evidence of the many directions taken by the earth during all the initial shaking. And it went on for such a long time. For me, I couldn't stand up. I couldn't sit down. The ground was going up and down, and round and round. In the many aftershocks, the ground motion might ripple in only one direction."
"Many of the aftershocks were gigantic by today's standards even for California..." [as an example] " I was walking around the area one day when I heard a big quake approaching. Not only did I hear the ground rumbling. It sounded like the wind blowing through the trees. Only the wind wasn't blowing. I glanced over at a stand of trees and saw the tree tops moving back and forth rapidly. Like water rippling across a pond, the ground was moving and causing the trees to shake back and forth."
"We had a road grader on site to keep the roads clear and often it would be parked close by the administrative area. During the shake, the grader began to 'dance' from side to side. Eventually, it was dancing so wildly that only the tips of the scraper blade were making contact with the ground. After the shaking stopped, the ground was thoroughly gouged up."
Perhaps even more profound is the following account of the condition of the launcher area:
[After the shaking of the initial quake had stopped] "We went inside the first launcher section of the fire unit on 'hot status' after prying open the blast doors. It was a big mess. No complete missile round was intact on the tracked launchers or handling rails. All the yoke structures had been sheared. The skins were gouged open; fins bent in all directions. Solid propellants cracked and the rocket motor covers were off. Strong stench from the exposed rocket propellant. Arming lanyards were pulled, energizing the on-board battery operated electrical power systems and gyros were spinning. Large components strung across the handling rails and launchers and on the floor, in all directions. Each missile representing upwards of 5 tons of high explosive just waiting for the initial spark to set off the entire lot... [After 40 years] I still have nightmares about what I saw in the first launcher section immediately after the earthquake."
The photograph below shows the two launcher buildings of the section referred to. The building on the left was the first opened after the initial quake. The one on the right is now the Kincaid Park Chalet.

The officer continues: "We loved and respected our ordnance brothers, but there is a story needing to be told. They came out very soon after the big quake (within an hour or so), with their heavy truck rigs and their white uniforms - with spark proof tools and flashlights. The problem we encountered was that none of the missiles looked like what they were expecting to see, based on their warhead manuals and instructions for 'safe isolation and disarming.' Our launcher warrant initially pulled me aside with great concern over the questions the ordnance folks were asking us. We were standing inside the section, with the flashlights and big manual and trying to point out in the mangled mess what the warhead manual was instructing. Indications to my warrant officer, and then to me, were that it was likely the ordnance folks would be more of a hazard than if we just formed up crews on-site and disarmed the missiles ourselves. We heard that a tidal wave was coming up Cook Inlet so that gave us an opportunity to make a hasty retreat to the high ground. Following a brief radio chat with the Battalion CO, it was mutually agreed with ordnance that they would return to Ft Richardson. Ordnance was not unhappy about being asked to leave. They did play a very important role in rebuilding, however....after that 72 hours of round-the-clock work by only our site personnel. ...with assistance now from ordnance, we were able to get back in operation, sort of, at the end of 7 days. We witnessed lots of individual heroism. Some folks ... scared to death, ran away and were gone for days."
The following comments are added by the Missile Warrant Officer on site at the time: "The reason the shear pins on all but 3 or 4 missiles sheared off and the lanyard pulled from between the booster and missile was that the missiles moved forward more than the boosters. This resulted in the lanyards being pulled and the shear pins being sheared. The missiles then dropped onto the forward end of the launch rail penetrating the missile skin. Some of the missiles pulled forward to the point that only an inch or so was left still hanging inside the front of the booster. No missiles actually hit the magazine floor. However, about 4 or 5 were ready to and our first job was to disarm and build support under them to prevent it from happening EOD was not ready or trained for what had to be done that night, but we did not send them away. I don't think we could have if we had wanted to as the problem was their responsibility. What we did do was on the job training for them. Then myself and a missile tech spent the rest of the night disarming the missiles in 3 of the missile sections while EOD disarmed the missiles in the 4th section."
These heroic recovery actions earned A battery a well-deserved Meritorious Unit Commendation the following August.
One of the officers that commanded A-battery in the late 1970's writes:
"When the site storage faciltities were visited following the quake, utter chaos was discovered. Missiles thrown off rails, missiles on and off rails in pieces, etc. So the fix was to modify the system by the addition of the earthquake pin so that the missiles would not be thrown off the handling rails. That was the way modifications were made in Nike. A problem would come up (some quite fatal disasters) and changes would be made. During the ORE one of the steps in the launching area would be to simulate the removal of the pin before the missile would be elevated...I know of at least 2 ORE's for A/1/43 we flunked because a launching crew member failed to simulate the removal of the pin."
Other changes in the water system were implemented due to the local geology in the late 1970's. This officer continues:
"What happened is there had to be a shift of the underground water supply and water wells that supplied the site dried up. Of course it was not overnight. The engineers ... were supposed to check a water reading pressure valve in the area of the generators. If it dropped below a certain level, certain steps were to be completed. Of course the guys did the checks and you could watch the water level drop over a two-week period. What happened is when it got to a certain level, water pumps would supposedly kick in and return the water level to an acceptable reading (ie sufficient water). Of course what actually happened is that when the pumps kicked in, they burned themselves out because there was no water to pump. It wouldn't have made any difference because there was no water to pump but at least the pumps would not have been fried. Water was tanked in for several days and rationed severely. After about a week, the underground springs had readjusted and water was again pumped like before except that the pumps had been provided a cut-off valve. ... nobody had really questioned the need for such a valve before. You learn with experience."
To continue some narrative from the earlier responder:
"At Site Point, we were almost accustomed to the many aftershocks from the big quake. You always slept with your clothes on, even when you weren't on the 'duty' crew. We were prepared at a moment's notice to run outside the building. With so many larger aftershocks, we had learned how to recognize when one was about to hit. You could hear the low pitched rumble through the ground - it reminded me as a child how I was able to hear a train coming in the far distance by the sounds in the rails, even before the train had gotten close enough to hear the whistle."
"Another incident that comes to mind occurred exactly one week after the initial quake - again, at suppertime. By that time, everyone on site was fully cognizant of what (didn't) happen in the launcher area and so were very much on edge about the potential hazards of additional quakes. The ground started shaking violently and the vent hood over the stove made a very loud noise and fell on the cooks. They (and everyone else in the messhall and barracks) ran out into the open. Later, I learned that the noise of the falling range hood created fears that missiles were exploding in the launcher area."
"A funny exchange occurred with a reporter from the Anchorage newspaper when they had a special parade at Ft Richardson honoring A Battery. The reporter asked what was the big deal about A Battery. 'Everybody had troubles with the earthquake. Many people lost their homes and livelihoods, especially in the Turnagain Arms area close by the site.' There was nothing we could say." [The topic of nuclear warheads at the site was not open for discussion.]
Perhaps the biggest thing to celebrate was what didn't happen at site Point.
As an aside, in October of 2005 a work crew was bulldozing a new bike trail through site Point (what is now Kincaid Park) and unearthed, among other things, a damaged and discarded fin from a Nike-Hercules booster. The general consensus is that the fin was misplaced during cleanup operations after the earthquake, buried with the other items, then subsequently discovered 41 years later. CLICK HERE to see photographs of this fin and the other items and a presentation detailing evidence suggesting a 1964 date for the fin's burial. For a discussion of the geology of the 1/43's operational area and that of the surrounding south central Alaskan mountain ranges, you may CLICK HERE for a document written about that very topic by a soldier in the mid-1960's (probably) timeframe. Be advised this is a 710K pdf file.

Here is the link. Some great history!

http://nikealaska.org/AADCP/AADCP.html

Just as an aside... Realize there were about 40 W-31 nuclear warheads on site with a nominal yield of 30 kilotons each...

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Old 03-12-2011, 09:45 AM   #27
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Default Re: Earthquakes!

Seems like a good time to bring this back to the top again.

Has anyone learned anything specific about this topic from the current events in Japan?
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Old 03-12-2011, 11:07 PM   #28
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Default Re: Earthquakes!

I learned it was time to act. As a family, we decided it was time to buy a couple months worth of food. Mission accomplished, now I need salmon and moose or caribou.
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Old 03-13-2011, 12:25 AM   #29
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Default Re: Earthquakes!

call me bitter but am i the only one that is keeping in mind the fact they invaded and attacked us Dec 7 1941? call me bitter, call me cold hearted, but i really couldnt care less about Japan... Especially given the fact the current state of our own country. Thats what they get for being entirely over populated on a tiny island....
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Old 03-13-2011, 09:29 AM   #30
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Default Re: Earthquakes!

Ya, thats pretty bitter. Most of the people that are suffering right now had absolutely nothing to do with attacking the U.S., most of them aren't even alive. Not to mention all the united states citizens that were over there for business or other matters.

But thats enough of that, if you don't have anything beneficial to add go foul up one of your own threads.



This current event has me thinking about NBC gear. The fallout would likely come right over south central Alaska wouldnt it?

I don't trust the source of this image, but it does serve our conversation to some extent.
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:23 AM   #31
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Default Re: Earthquakes!

just frustrated with the media as of late, HOWEVER seeing as i stopped watching, this fallout situation is news to me. interesting. i cant imagine it being very powerful and potent by the time it reaches here. is 750 rads significant?
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:56 AM   #32
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Default Re: Earthquakes!

I was thinking about fallout when they first started talking about trying to keep their reactor cool.

Its insane. What would it do to the fisheries? How do you prepare for fallout?
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Old 03-13-2011, 11:31 AM   #33
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Default Re: Earthquakes!

http://www.ki4u.com/guide.htm
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Old 03-13-2011, 06:31 PM   #34
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Default Re: Earthquakes!

AK Jeepin' Yeah, that is A LOT. A single dose of 500 Rads is considered fatal in about 50% of cases.
Whatever amount of actual material you ingest or contact increases the stochastic effects like cancer, leukemia, genetic effects and cataracts.

The average that folks get in the U.S. PER YEAR is around .036 Rads- based on background radiation sources. Need an extra chemsuit?
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Old 03-13-2011, 06:37 PM   #35
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Default Re: Earthquakes!

well i got extras!
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Old 03-13-2011, 07:38 PM   #36
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Default Re: Earthquakes!

Currently the jet stream is running well south of Alaska. The 48hr. 500Mb has it running nearly due east toward Seattle. I'd be more inclined to believe NOAA than the chart posted above.

http://pafc.arh.noaa.gov/data/graphics/fcst500mb48.gif

Get your Potassium Iodine tablets, they're gonna go fast. News said the government would provide them if needed, not sure I believe that.
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Old 03-13-2011, 07:41 PM   #37
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Default Re: Earthquakes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RocDoc21 View Post
AK Jeepin' Yeah, that is A LOT. A single dose of 500 Rads is considered fatal in about 50% of cases.
Whatever amount of actual material you ingest or contact increases the stochastic effects like cancer, leukemia, genetic effects and cataracts.

The average that folks get in the U.S. PER YEAR is around .036 Rads- based on background radiation sources. Need an extra chemsuit?
Dave i need a chemsuit
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Old 03-13-2011, 08:48 PM   #38
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Default Re: Earthquakes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by acruxksa View Post
Currently the jet stream is running well south of Alaska. The 48hr. 500Mb has it running nearly due east toward Seattle. I'd be more inclined to believe NOAA than the chart posted above.

http://pafc.arh.noaa.gov/data/graphics/fcst500mb48.gif
Absolutely! Can you post a link that will give us up to date info, or will that one always point to the current graphic?
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:17 PM   #39
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Default Re: Earthquakes!

It should always point to the latest 500mb 48hr forecast.

Here's the link to the current 500mb Analysis :
http://pafc.arh.noaa.gov/data/graphics/anl500mb.gif

And here is the page with the current, 48hr and 96hr 500mb Analysis:
http://pafc.arh.noaa.gov/marfcst.php

It's worth noting that the 96hr forecast shows the jet stream moving north toward the Aleutians. While this may be cause for concern, it's essentially a forecast for what's predicted to happen 4 days from now.. I usually glance at the 96 hr forecast to get an idea what's possible, but the 48hr is much more reliably predicted. In any case, they're all worth keeping an eye on should the worst happen in Japan.

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Old 03-13-2011, 10:53 PM   #40
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Default Re: Earthquakes!

i could crack a joke about nuclear fallout and japan... ill bite my tongue
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Old 03-14-2011, 12:08 AM   #41
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Default Re: Earthquakes!

Well, we didn't have any significant fallout when 2 nukes DETONATED on their island...

So, why should something that's fizzling significantly more weakly than a DETONATION... give us anything to worry about, here or on the west coast.
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Old 03-14-2011, 06:16 AM   #42
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Default Re: Earthquakes!

Quote:
Well, we didn't have any significant fallout when 2 nukes DETONATED on their island...

So, why should something that's fizzling significantly more weakly than a DETONATION... give us anything to worry about, here or on the west coast.

Worry? Never. But its worth discussing for the same reasons I carry a pistol. I'll probably never "need" it, but I like to be prepared.
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Old 03-14-2011, 08:32 AM   #43
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Default Re: Earthquakes!

Oh, I don't deny that it's cause for concern for no other reason than the endangerment and loss of life in their neighborhood... One of the nuclear power stations was actually set to be decomissioned this year if my news nose is correct... and they've done an extremely admirable job of keeping things together as well as they have, given that they had a HUGE double whammy of natural disasters and things haven't even truly gone Chernobyl level yet.

I'm just personally refuting the hype.. there's some crazy fallout predictions rolling around the internet, some of which would only be attainable if a nuclear superpower decided to use that island chain as a testing ground for half of their arsenal.
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Old 03-14-2011, 09:55 AM   #44
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Default Re: Earthquakes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by alaskajeepin View Post
i could crack a joke about nuclear fallout and japan... ill bite my tongue

Really?
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Old 03-14-2011, 09:58 AM   #45
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Default Re: Earthquakes!

Back on the subject of earthquake preparedness. We just spent an hour at work covering the subject. I am truly amazed at the complete lack of knowledge most people have on the subject. I am embarassed for the people who have absolutely no preparations or safety plans for their family.
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Old 03-14-2011, 12:25 PM   #46
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Default Re: Earthquakes!

Does anyone live near an industrial complex? If so, do you know what kinds of gasses could be released if there were a major earthquake? Do you know which way the wind normally blows in your neighborhood? Anyone live near a sewage treatment plant, do you know what to do if their chlorine tank leaks?
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Old 03-14-2011, 07:43 PM   #47
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Default Re: Earthquakes!

As a FYI, Chem suits do nothing for radiation at all. They protect from chemicals, not radiation.

Your best bet is going inside a thick concrete structure to protect yourself. If it goes up im just going to hide in an igloo in the bomb dump. It has enough concrete to mildly contain a explosive blast so i should be good.
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Old 03-15-2011, 06:49 PM   #48
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Default Re: Earthquakes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgreen776 View Post
I don't trust the source of this image, but it does serve our conversation to some extent.

I saw those rad amounts and did a double take lol. Be tough to achieve those radiation levels without setting off everyone's nukes in the same spot. See Snopes for some debunking: http://www.snopes.com/photos/technology/fallout.asp

I am pretty disappointed so far in the turn of events with this reactor, not to mention the tsunami (x1,000+ worse than the reactor imo, in terms of damage). Japan is probably most prepared country on earth for this type of disaster and it's not looking good at all.

I just hate to think if this or worse goes off down in the pacific NW and takes out Seattle, Portland, etc... Might be a week before they can land a barge here with groceries, but it could be a lot longer before one could leave. Assuming it didn't take out our roads in, I guess they could truck it up.
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Old 03-15-2011, 10:57 PM   #49
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Default Re: Earthquakes!

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Originally Posted by Cheveep View Post
As a FYI, Chem suits do nothing for radiation at all. They protect from chemicals, not radiation.
When most people say Chem Suit I assume they are talking about a military style NBC Suit correct? That is what I believe most people buy if they are trying to be prepared... the overstock of military gear or a civilian version of an NBC Suit. If that's the case then they do serve as a barrier of protection. NBC stands for Nuclear Biological Chemical and Nuclear refers to some amount of radiation. I am not saying you could take heavy doses and be fine simply by wearing the suit but it does lessen the effect I believe because it keeps radioactive particles in the air from contacting your skin.

It is by no means a fool proof plan of keeping yourself alive in a raidation leak but it does serve as some form of protection. I think it also depends on the type of radiation. Meaning are there radiation in the particles in the air from the wind and the source is miles and miles away... or are you standing right next to the actual source of the radiation and directly absorbing it.

The pics on the internet coming from Japan show their military wearing NBC suits when working in areas with radiation leaks. If it served no protection at all then I don't believe they would bother. They know what they're dealing with, it's not like they think there is anthrax in the site. They are specifically wearing them as some barrier of protection from the radiation.
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Old 03-16-2011, 04:36 AM   #50
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Default Re: Earthquakes!

..................

Ok.

NBC suits are worn because they're intended as a disposable set of clothing that can get contaminated and then get hucked in a hole.

The protection is the mask. Alpha and Beta particles if ingested will cause you trouble. NBC suits don't stop gamma.

As a civilian you could afford yourself the same amount of protection by simply walking through the same area with a N100 3m facemask, swim goggles, and once you get through the dirty area take a swim in a stream, halfway through ditch your clothes and mask, and put new ones on on the other side.


Congrats, you just did a completely ghetto (but effective) version of decon.

You only need bleach if you're deconning for biological or chemical agents. Nuclear, you just need to get clean.
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