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Prepared for Alaska!? Are you prepared? How have you hedged your bets for survival in Alaska? All threads related to being ready for the worst Alaska has to dish out belong in this forum.

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Old 06-18-2010, 04:05 PM   #26
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Default Re: Food storage hints

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Is 42 gallons enough to flush your toilets for 30 days? Not that you couldnt get water from a creek or something for that, but if the sit. was really bad you might not want to leave the house much. Or if the roads were all destroyed from a bad earth quake or something.

Use your grey water to flush... wash your hands etc in a tupperware bin, then flush with that... when the power's out it's not really a superb option but we hold off on flushing till there's #2 in the pot.
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Old 06-18-2010, 04:10 PM   #27
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Default Re: Food storage hints

If SHTF to the point where I needed to think about what to use to flush the toilets I would consider building an outhouse.

When I was a kid my folks redid their bathroom (only 1 in the house) and my Dad had just setup a tarped area in the basement with a 5 gal pail w seat on it. Line with trash bags and take it out everyday.
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Old 06-18-2010, 04:30 PM   #28
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The nutrition "value" of milk makes many of us pee out the backside when consumed.

I bought a box of powdered milk in 2002 and I just used it all up a couple weeks ago... that is how often I use milk.

Think about it, how many other mammals consumer milk after early childhood? None.
I agree with this completely. After a baby is 2 or so... they have the ability to eat solid foods for nutrition, and no longer "need" to survive.

My only point is that infants up to that age need milk (Or something similar) to survive. Hence my original post regarding this

I am curious though, how was the milk that you consumed recently, from 2002? Did it have a bad smell or anything once you rehydrated it? If was decent, what brand/type was it?
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Old 06-18-2010, 04:51 PM   #29
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Processed store bought milk is NOT a good food source. The milk industry has been feeding us this crap about "Milk does the body good" for as long as I can remember, even Doctors who should know better fall for this garbage! There are much better sources of calcium than processed milk, processed milk continues to robs the body of nutrition the more you drink it. Infants should NEVER be fed processed milk as their main source of nutrition. Mothers milk (from a healthy mother) is the ultimate infant food and by far the cheapest way to insure good health in baby's.

Raw unpasteurized milk on the other hand is a SUPER food. The process of pasteurizing kills most nutrients and produces the cause of allergy's many people associate with store bought milk. My family has been drinking raw milk for a few seasons and it has been wonderful.

We have powdered milk in our storage but I don't give it much credit. I do store food that is intended to be given away, if you are one of the few that are well prepared you will have people coming to you for food. I have a few different examples of items that I don't mind giving out when people show up. SPAM and powdered milk are two of theses examples. I grew up on Spam and I love it cut thin and fried ,but it is a NASTY example of a processed food. It's FULL of crap that will make you sick.

Remember to have a little food on hand to give out to those who laughed at you and made reference to "tin foil hats".
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Old 06-18-2010, 05:12 PM   #30
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From what I've read... Fish/seafood seems to have a better chance at long shelf/storage life than Chicken or Beef. Is this actually the case? If so, why? If your moms has any additional or useful information regarding this, I would be all ears. Sounds like she may have some good experience with it.



Answer in short...For infants (Which I have one of, and I'm sure many others do as well). I myself, also do not drink much milk, if at all... depending on the heat of the wings anyway...lol

Again, from what I've read in MANY magazines and other publications, it is near impossible to duplicate the nutritional value of milk. Even formulas cannot produce the benefits of milk... even the really expensive kind (I know this because we had to feed our daughter a particularly expensive "Dairy Free" formula when she was an infant. However, it was made VERY CLEAR to us by our pediatrician that we had to keep trying to introduce milk, as the formula was not a sufficient long term substitute for actual cows/goat milk. This was right from the mouth of our Pediatrician, who has been practicing for over 40 years. Allergies/resistance to dairy products in infants is proven to have hindering effects throughout the life of the child... and from what I understand, this is realted directly to the absence of Milk in the child diet. There are obviously exceptions to this, but my view is why take the chance, if it is possible to store milk in any form for long periods of time. Now.. I realize that this maybe debatable by people who know much more about it than you or I do, but one thing is for CERTAIN. Milk provides nutrition that can be had cheaply, and without complicated dosing or instructions. Also, in the case of SHTF, I doubt there will be much in the way of baby formula floating around. In the "Old old days", if the mother could not produce enough milk to support the baby, the baby would typically die.

I would be open to hearing about alternatives, but it would have to come from someone who KNOWS EXACTLY what they are talking about, and again, has experience in the pediatric field... lots of it.
Thats a very good point Tony, a child's diet can be much more sensitive than that of an adult.

If your child has an intolerance to milk, be VERY careful. My mother believes that because I was given some sort of milk formula by the hospital when I was born I now have a life threatening milk allergy. If someone fries an egg in a pan with butter, wipes it clean, then fries my egg in oil, I will get sick. Very sick. It wasn't this severe when I was a child, but repeated exposure in very limited quantities, has greatly increased my allergic reaction. You need to talk to a specialist asap, you could be ruining your child's life without even knowing it. The allergy field is extremely complex, and changes more rapidly that general practitioners can keep up with. Growing up I was under the impression that repeated exposure in small doses would increase my bodies resistance, when in fact, it was doing the exact opposite!

Imagine a life where you could not eat anything that you did not prepare yourself. I'm not talking about making your own sandwich from store bought items that of which you carefully read the ingredients on, I'm talking about making your own bread from scratch, raising your own meet source, etc! I'm 32 and just now learning how serious this can be. Imagine the burden that is on a family.
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Old 06-18-2010, 05:13 PM   #31
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As far as meat storage... I have smoked canned fish from 2003 that tastes wonderful, as a matter of fact I'm getting hungry just thinking about it. I have all kinds of canned meats on the shelf and frozen stuff in the deep freezer. If I have a problem in the winter I plan on simply moving my electric freezer outside and use it as a large cooler. Depending on the winter conditions I figure I can eat on my frozen stuff for a while as long as the temps stay low outside.

In the summer I have been thinking about hanging salted meat like they did a hundred years ago. Many of the old methods of food preparation/ storage are being rediscovered. One of the things I would love to have is an old fashion cast iron wood fueled stove/oven. I saw one in a small apartment in mountain View one evening. I couldn't believe it! The lady was using it as decoration and a place to put her flowers.
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Old 06-18-2010, 05:18 PM   #32
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Default Re: Food storage hints

This thread is awesome btw!

I just got off the phone with my mom, she said she will try to write up something on canning.
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Old 06-18-2010, 05:32 PM   #33
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Processed store bought milk is NOT a good food source. The milk industry has been feeding us this crap about "Milk does the body good" for as long as I can remember, even Doctors who should know better fall for this garbage! There are much better sources of calcium than processed milk, processed milk continues to robs the body of nutrition the more you drink it. Infants should NEVER be fed processed milk as their main source of nutrition. Mothers milk (from a healthy mother) is the ultimate infant food and by far the cheapest way to insure good health in baby's.

Raw unpasteurized milk on the other hand is a SUPER food. The process of pasteurizing kills most nutrients and produces the cause of allergy's many people associate with store bought milk. My family has been drinking raw milk for a few seasons and it has been wonderful.

We have powdered milk in our storage but I don't give it much credit. I do store food that is intended to be given away, if you are one of the few that are well prepared you will have people coming to you for food. I have a few different examples of items that I don't mind giving out when people show up. SPAM and powdered milk are two of theses examples. I grew up on Spam and I love it cut thin and fried ,but it is a NASTY example of a processed food. It's FULL of crap that will make you sick.

Remember to have a little food on hand to give out to those who laughed at you and made reference to "tin foil hats".
Respectfully... I would have to disagree with you %100 on your premise that pasteurized/processed milk is NOT a good source of nutrition for infants. Are you a pediatrician? Do you have any kind of medical or nutritional background? If you are.. and do.. though... what field do you work in?

I would be curious as to how you've come to have this position? Can you show me some reliable references to this prospect you maintain.. or is it like some kind of conspiracy thing against the milk production industry.... cause I have not come across any legitimate source that shares this view. I'm not saying your wrong, I would just like to read what you've read to come to that conclusion.

I agree that raw mothers milk is the ideal food for babies... but again... in the scenario that it is not available.... what is the alternative for long term storable newborn baby food...

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Old 06-18-2010, 05:37 PM   #34
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As far as meat storage... I have smoked canned fish from 2003 that tastes wonderful, as a matter of fact I'm getting hungry just thinking about it. I have all kinds of canned meats on the shelf and frozen stuff in the deep freezer. If I have a problem in the winter I plan on simply moving my electric freezer outside and use it as a large cooler. Depending on the winter conditions I figure I can eat on my frozen stuff for a while as long as the temps stay low outside.

In the summer I have been thinking about hanging salted meat like they did a hundred years ago. Many of the old methods of food preparation/ storage are being rediscovered. One of the things I would love to have is an old fashion cast iron wood fueled stove/oven. I saw one in a small apartment in mountain View one evening. I couldn't believe it! The lady was using it as decoration and a place to put her flowers.
I like the idea of hanging meat as well. My wifes parents used to do it, and if they were still fit enough to do it today, they would.

I guess I'm more curious about what can be stored meat wise, besides fish and SPAM, for a long period of time, without having to be froze.?
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Old 06-18-2010, 05:47 PM   #35
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Default Re: Food storage hints

The UAF Cooperative Extension Service is a resource that my mom suggested for food preservation. I cant believe I hadn't heard about this resource before!

http://www.uaf.edu/ces/hhfd/

http://www.uaf.edu/ces/preservingala...nty/index.html
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Old 06-18-2010, 06:01 PM   #36
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Thats a very good point Tony, a child's diet can be much more sensitive than that of an adult.

If your child has an intolerance to milk, be VERY careful. My mother believes that because I was given some sort of milk formula by the hospital when I was born I now have a life threatening milk allergy. If someone fries an egg in a pan with butter, wipes it clean, then fries my egg in oil, I will get sick. Very sick. It wasn't this severe when I was a child, but repeated exposure in very limited quantities, has greatly increased my allergic reaction. You need to talk to a specialist asap, you could be ruining your child's life without even knowing it. The allergy field is extremely complex, and changes more rapidly that general practitioners can keep up with. Growing up I was under the impression that repeated exposure in small doses would increase my bodies resistance, when in fact, it was doing the exact opposite!
YES! you are 100% right. I like your Mom already , I want to meet her!

DO NOT believe a doctor just because he has a degree hanging on his wall from a medical school that was funded by drug company's and special interest groups. Doctors are influenced by the industry they work in. You should be very careful about giving a baby infant formula! It is NEVER as good as a healthy mothers milk.

Similac is made by a company who is more interested in profit than your baby's health. It makes me sick when they put a cute little teddy bear on the box to illicit a positive emotional response.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/detai...72036854775808


Please don't even think about store bought milk for infants. We are so heavily influenced by industry it's hard to know what is good and bad. If you have to feed a baby infant formula you are going to need to make yourself an expert on the subject. Consult a nature-path physician, a good chiropractor, even a woman with experience like bgreen's mother, her knowledge and experience in SOLID GOLD to all you who are just starting out with your own kids. Read as much as you can, pray about it, and use common sense.

I have made the mistake of blind faith in mainstream doctors and now my children have to deal with the effects of my ignorance. I even gave my oldest inoculations when the stupid doctors directed me to let them do it! Don't get me started on shots for children!
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Old 06-18-2010, 06:04 PM   #37
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I hijacked my own thread, lets keep this focused on food now. Topics like waste disposal can be a new thread, I would love to read about that.
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Old 06-18-2010, 07:04 PM   #38
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YES! you are 100% right. I like your Mom already , I want to meet her!

DO NOT believe a doctor just because he has a degree hanging on his wall from a medical school that was funded by drug company's and special interest groups. Doctors are influenced by the industry they work in. You should be very careful about giving a baby infant formula! It is NEVER as good as a healthy mothers milk.

Similac is made by a company who is more interested in profit than your baby's health. It makes me sick when they put a cute little teddy bear on the box to illicit a positive emotional response.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/detai...72036854775808


Please don't even think about store bought milk for infants. We are so heavily influenced by industry it's hard to know what is good and bad. If you have to feed a baby infant formula you are going to need to make yourself an expert on the subject. Consult a nature-path physician, a good chiropractor, even a woman with experience like bgreen's mother, her knowledge and experience in SOLID GOLD to all you who are just starting out with your own kids. Read as much as you can, pray about it, and use common sense.

I have made the mistake of blind faith in mainstream doctors and now my children have to deal with the effects of my ignorance. I even gave my oldest inoculations when the stupid doctors directed me to let them do it! Don't get me started on shots for children!
As far as brook is concerned... a lot of things have changed in the 30 years since he's been a tyke. 30 years ago, child seats were somewhat of a rarity (So I'm told), and smoking around your kids, and drinking while pregnant were acceptable practices....

I have known a few kids growing up who have had dairy allergies, and it sucked for them... no going to b-day parties, having to wear that bracelet, having to worry about everything that was injested, because almost everything had dairy products growing up.... However...

Those cases, were FAR from common. In fact, the people who benefit from store bought milk, FAR FAR FAR out weigh the people who don't. I know this, because it's a fact. I am not disputing that raw mothers milk is preferred for infants, but it is a fact that MANY mothers cannot produce enough of their own milk to suffice there child, and they do use store bought milk as a substitute. I know this, not because a doctor with a fancy PHD, or some wall ornament in a frame, told me, but because I witness with my own eyes, not only growing up, but even today.

I agree that some formulas are wrong for certain conditions and scenarios, but it is a fact that the correct formula for a particular childs (Or mothers) condition saves lives far more than not. Same with store bought milk. If store bought milk and formula was more harmful than not, there would be more uproar from the people, and we'd all know about it, because the issue would be VERY wide spread considering how many people use the products. Just like we all know smoking around kids is generally bad. Despite the possible efforts of the tobacco industry to convince us otherwise.

You're OPINION is that store bought milk is bad for you and provides no nutritional value... but again, unless you can provide anything more than an opinion, it is just an opinion. I do respect your opinion though, and those who share it as well. I have yet to come across any evidence that this is the prevailing wisdom. I asked you to provide links or explain how you've come to your opinion... but you haven't. Money is an easy cop-out because it adds an element of villain to a company or industry. The same case could be made for air fresheners..

Maybe this is a question for my pediatrician afterall....lol **** wife is always right

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Old 06-19-2010, 03:15 PM   #39
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Tony I don't want you to just believe me, I want you to verify what your doctor is doing to your children. Use my comments as an entry point or continue to follow his advise. I have reasons to be confident but this is your family, you make the decision.
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Old 06-19-2010, 10:26 PM   #40
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BGreen and Nate hit the nail on the head, humans are the only mammals to drink milk after being weaned.

As far as buying a cow or goat-yes goat- for a milk supply, you 1. are tying yourself down with livestock, they have to be fed and milked daily, housed and have feed/water themselves, and are not easily portable 2. a domestic animal will probably among the first targets in a catastrophic situation.

Remember Alaska has ONLY about 3 days food supply if tranportation is interrupted.

If you have to drink dried milk, stockpile lots of vitamins especially D. Everyone in Alaska is vitamin D deficient.

A supply of Tang, Propel, Koolaid, etc. may make stored water a little more palatable.

For that matter, a broad spectrum of vitamins and minerals should be part of the stockpile, and part of your daily regimen.

A couple of good books on naturopathic-(home cures) medicine should be a part of your library, as well as first aid, advanced first aid and trauma treatment. Military Field Manuals are a good resource.

The internet, Government Printing Office-Pueblo,CO, and local agricultural colleges/extension services have tons of info on food growth and storage. usually free. Our elders can also be a great source of food preservation tips, why not tap into that experience base? After all most of them grew up in an era when you couldn't just run to the store to get what you need, make use of that info, it will make them feel good too.

Salted, jerked, pickled and immersed are some different ways to preserve meat. I don't know if immersed is the right term, but one of the ways people stored cooked sausage was to coil it in a container, usually a wooden barrel, and cover it completely with grease. I can hear my arteries slamming shut already!!! Is it better to starve to death or die of Peripheral Artery Disease?

Vinegar and honey are two items that have many uses. Drugstores may not be an option.

Have you considered any prescription meds that you may require?

Do you or your children have any special dietary/medicinal/health support needs?

I truly expect there will be a day in our future when the things we take for granted like electricity, running water, natural gas/heating oil, 24 hour grocery stores and pharmacies-WILL NOT BE AVAILABLE. The "old ways" may be all we have to fall back on.

Ask yourself this- How will I provde for myself and my family? Be prepared!

These are just some random thoughts that occurred to me while reading the above posts, they are not meant to frighten anyone or incite hysteria, but to provoke rational thought and preparedness. Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it

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Old 06-20-2010, 07:39 AM   #41
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Lets focus on food tips here, other areas of emergency prep are great. Please start another thread so we can enjoy discussing them.

I don't have time to post some of the other thoughts I want to share so I will add a short one today.

CAN OPENERS. Get a few of them cause they wear out, get lost, and someone will need the one you have. Have brand new can openers on hand and store them with your food supply. The little John Wayne C-ration types are OK for keeping in your pocket or around your neck when your in the bush, but life is MUCH easier with a full size tool.
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Old 06-20-2010, 08:40 AM   #42
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Default Freezer through the summer?

Well.. the thread title does say Food Storage Hints...

So... I've been thinking about making a natural freezer. Anyone ever try anything like this?

Essentially, you make a few decent size holes in your yard (Maybe 2 feet square, but 4 feet deep). The trick is to have as little top ground exposure as possible.

You keep your hole free of snow through out the winter, but keep it in the open air so it freezes real good. As the temps start to increase in the spring, you fill the holes with already frozen goods, and cap the holes with insulated caps.

I'm going to try it this fall, and see how long it will last through the summer... would be pretty sweet if it works for even a month or two Sure would be nice to be able to freeze stuff without a freezer
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Old 06-20-2010, 09:56 AM   #43
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Default Re: Food storage hints

I would like to find more info on salting meat as well. The only thing keeping me from popping the black bear hanging around my place is no freezer space for him. Salting would relieve those concerns and allow me to save him a while.

On milk, That Borden shelf stable stuff is pretty good, and easy to store. We don't use alot of milk, but I have to have some for my coffee. That creamer stuff is nnnasty. Oh, and I store a couple years worth of coffee. I will not deal with crisis and have to quit coffee at the same time.

On refrigeration, if you lose your power in winter no biggy, right? In summer, you have a problem. I have an RV fridge that runs on propane, as I am off grid allready, but rumor has it they are expensive. (propane fridges)
How much power does it take to run a fridge(electric) and freezer? How much solar would you need to run those if there were no grid power?
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Old 06-20-2010, 11:02 AM   #44
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Default Re: Freezer through the summer?

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Well.. the thread title does say Food Storage Hints...

So... I've been thinking about making a natural freezer. Anyone ever try anything like this?

Essentially, you make a few decent size holes in your yard (Maybe 2 feet square, but 4 feet deep). The trick is to have as little top ground exposure as possible.

You keep your hole free of snow through out the winter, but keep it in the open air so it freezes real good. As the temps start to increase in the spring, you fill the holes with already frozen goods, and cap the holes with insulated caps.

I'm going to try it this fall, and see how long it will last through the summer... would be pretty sweet if it works for even a month or two Sure would be nice to be able to freeze stuff without a freezer
This is a pretty good idea Tony. I saw something about this on tv a while back. It was about the people in Barrow, and their underground storehouse.

For down here, I would think that you would have to build an insulated box underground, rather than just a hole.
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Old 06-20-2010, 11:45 AM   #45
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This is a pretty good idea Tony. I saw something about this on tv a while back. It was about the people in Barrow, and their underground storehouse.

For down here, I would think that you would have to build an insulated box underground, rather than just a hole.
You don't think the ground would be insulation enough? Even so, that wouldn't be too much of an addition.... you could just bary some big coolers I guess.

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On milk, That Borden shelf stable stuff is pretty good, and easy to store. We don't use alot of milk, but I have to have some for my coffee. That creamer stuff is nnnasty. Oh, and I store a couple years worth of coffee. I will not deal with crisis and have to quit coffee at the same time.
Seriously right? If I can't figure out how to grow my own tobacco... the only thing thats gunna be worse than having to deal with a SHTF scenario... is quitting smoking at the same time...lol

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Old 06-20-2010, 12:14 PM   #46
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The frost depth around these parts is around 10 feet, from what I have seen. Getting your stores down that far would be ideal, so as to use as much of mother natures 'cold' as possible. Then insulating for effect.
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Old 06-20-2010, 12:26 PM   #47
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Default Re: Food storage hints

It was fine. I just use milk for cooking where it's pretty much needed, like Tuna Helper, mashed taters, etc and even then I use about 1/2 what the recipe says. I'd never drink that stuff... I would gag and vomit almost instantly.

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I agree with this completely. After a baby is 2 or so... they have the ability to eat solid foods for nutrition, and no longer "need" to survive.

My only point is that infants up to that age need milk (Or something similar) to survive. Hence my original post regarding this

I am curious though, how was the milk that you consumed recently, from 2002? Did it have a bad smell or anything once you rehydrated it? If was decent, what brand/type was it?
Average fridge/freezer needs about 10 amps to run, so 1200 watt panel.


I have sent the company that runs the well here several letters about backup power and I just get ignored. This isn't just a SHTF thing but just day to day really. Winter usually means wind... and wind means power is going out. Everytime the power was out, I had no water. I had to take showers at the gym on base several times because of that. Power was only out for 18-24hrs at a stretch at least but for a week or two it was 3-4 times each week. I lost everything I had in my fridge in freezer as well (didn't have a gen set).
Heat wasn't an issue at least, takes a good day-1.5 days before the slab has cooled to the point that the house is loosing temp.

I don't know if there is a requirement by the state to have something for backup?
I would imagine city water has overhead tanks or backup gen sets for the pumps?
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Last edited by nate; 06-20-2010 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 06-20-2010, 12:47 PM   #48
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Default Re: Food storage hints

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Originally Posted by B-one View Post
The frost depth around these parts is around 10 feet, from what I have seen. Getting your stores down that far would be ideal, so as to use as much of mother natures 'cold' as possible. Then insulating for effect.
The point of digging the hole, and then letting it freeze over the winter, is so that you don't have to go down to natural frost. It would be ideal... but unless you have a lot of times on your hand with a shovel, or own a back hoe/etc. that isn't practical.

I'm betting that if you dig a hole down 4-5 feet at most, and let it freeze all winter, that you'll be able to keep meat froze for a good part of summer (as long as the lid is insulated well, and you're not in it all the time.)

I'm going to try it this next year and see how it works.. easy enough experiment

I'll preobably try a few different depths to see how deep it NEEDS to be... but if it doesn't work at 5 feet, i'll have to figure something else out...lol Anyone got a backhoe? haha

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Old 06-20-2010, 03:37 PM   #49
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Default Re: Food storage hints

My aunt and uncle had a cold store room off their basement. It's where they put all the canned goods, fresh vegetables, etc. It stays cool, would not be suitable for keeping something like meat refrigerated I don't think though.

All they did was dig out by the house and then build a concrete box. So it's surrounded all sides by dirt. There is a short tunnel (3-4ft) from the basement to it, and then an insulated door.
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Old 06-20-2010, 04:10 PM   #50
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Default Re: Food storage hints

A couple of thoughts on summer time food storage.

My grandpa used to have a cabin off the grid in the Talkeetna area. He dug a root cellar and it worked very well. Make it in an area shaded by trees. Our ground stays in the low 40's in the summer and is plenty cool to keep food if built right.

An old guy I used to work for told me about the ice house they had in Wyoming in the early part of this century. I guess it was common back then. Nothing more than an old shack. Inside the shack the walls were lined with square bales of straw. In the winter they would saw large blocks of ice from the lake and store then in the shed. They would insulate the ice buy covering it with more loose straw. The ice would keep all summer and then some and the summers in Wyoming are much warmer and longer than they are here. This ice would be used for keeping their milk and such cold. They had an ice box which I envision is like a small chest freezer. They would put a new chunk of ice in it every so often like a cooler. They would also use the ice for making ice cream.
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