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Shooting, Firearms, and Reloading Looking for a new pistol, purchased a new rifle, have a range report, tell us about it here. All firearm related topics, including political, belong in this forum.

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Old 03-04-2013, 02:02 PM   #1
Full83size
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Default Gun safety

The 4-Laws of firearm safety:

#1 Every gun IS loaded

#2 Do not point your muzzle at anything you do not wish to destroy.

#3 Keep your finger off of the trigger until your weapon is pointed down rage, and you are ready to fire on your target.

#4 Be aware of your targets foreground and background.

Breaking any one of these rules can result in death or injury to you, or someone around you. A firearm is a tool. If you own one, its your responsibility to be properly trained on how to use it, and how to use it safely. If you disagree with these rules, you are ignorant, inexperienced, and have the mindset of a fool.

I was thinking today that I personally know about 9 people that have experienced an accident with a firearm. Two of which were military vets who worked guns for a living, and one who almost killed himself. If it wasn't for his retired army medic father being a shout away, he would have died in a pool of his own blood, long before EMS arrived. It's time that the responsible gun owning community wakes up and supports proper training, and practices that training.


Regarding rule #1, some argue this as opposed to the traditional "treat guns as if they are loaded" approach. I would tell you that the majority of firearms accidents are done with "unloaded guns". With that said, the mindset that when I unload a gun, everything is all good and the rules go out the window is proven to be wrong. Another thing that ticks me off is when people "clear a gun", and then incorrectly point it away and pull the trigger. Meaning that they do not physically check for the presence of a round, but rather with a half hearted attempt they rack the slide etc. A friend almost blew a hole through my garage door when he failed to clear the gun, and then jacked another round into battery. Some people argue that the 4-laws are common sense and that folks should know better.Yeah they "should". There are however those people around us that sacrifice humbling themselves and receiving training for the sake of "looking cool", and acting like they know what they are doing. I've had two people in my garage that I thought were competent prove to me that #1 they did not know how to properly manipulate the weapon system that I was showing them, and #2 that they had received some bad (ignorant) training somewhere along the line.

Another peeve if mine is all of these hot shots who carry guns without training and talk about self defense and what they would do in a real scenario. You have no idea what how you are going to react in a high stress scenario. Have you received any kind of professional training to understand how your body responds in a time is life, high stress, fight or flight scenario? Do you understand that almost all of your complex motor skills are shot to hell, that increased blood flow causes major tunnel vision, and that your body shuts down almost all of your non essential functions including up to 90% of your ability to hear and process information. Do you understand that as a non trained individual, your body will consume all of your energy reserved for about 10-15 minutes worth of peak energy before you just about collapse from exaustion? Carrying a gun is not a freakin joke or child play. Without training, especially with multiple targets/attackers, your probability of mis-identifying a target is extremely high.

It's time that folks step it up and take the initiative to respect and honor the gun rights that we have, and that may be taken away from us in the near future. I'm sick and tired of seeing people around me nearly injure themselves and others out of ignorance and stupidity. It's a tool, and without proper safety training, it will kill you in a heartbeat regardless of what side of the fence you're on....
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:11 AM   #2
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Default Re: Gun safety

To qoute my son Seth on point #3 "Keep your booger hooker off the bang switch" This is the mistake I see the most.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:00 AM   #3
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Default Re: Gun safety

I spent some time with a young man, who just completed his first firearm purchase, in my garage last night going over safety etc. It was a fairly productive evening as he was very humble and willing to learn. In the past I had watched him sweep other people with his new firearm while showing it off.

One thing that I stressed to him was that as a firearm owner, one should humble themselves, and strive to obtain the best safety and firearm training available to the individual at that time. He agreed, which was obviously a good sign. If I can say something to someone that will keep them safer, protect people in their household, and give the gun community a better image, then I consider it a success.
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:25 PM   #4
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Default Re: Gun safety

I agree that firearm safety is paramount. Are you saying training should be mandatory for firearm ownership?
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:45 PM   #5
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Default Re: Gun safety

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I agree that firearm safety is paramount. Are you saying training should be mandatory for firearm ownership?
No, not at all. Any time the govt touches something, they tax it to death and screw it up. Gun owners need to take initiative to get the training, and say something when one of these newly 21 y.o. guys without a dad buys a gun and doesn't have a clue how to use it safely.
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Old 03-09-2013, 04:52 AM   #6
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Default Re: Gun safety

A prime example of what not to do...
I figure you guys will like this photo
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Old 03-09-2013, 04:53 AM   #7
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Default Re: Gun safety

Sorry for the large photo size
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:24 PM   #8
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Default Re: Gun safety

That SAW isn't pointed at him... he's talking to someone in the truck. Its a door mounted SAW. Good example of why setting the F-Stop on your digital camera is important

Some actual examples of what not to do. Trigger discipline, having a safe backstop, what to do if you have a hangfire...

I can only imagine this dumbass thought he had a squib and figured he'd see it in the barrel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtkapY3ZfD4

Why some people shouldn't breed OR own guns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16GBvBKvSUg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11fcg543Jow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-rGnMKszxg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qth1k962_9A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeGD7r6s-zU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikZMbpjkHR0
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:01 AM   #9
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Default Re: Gun safety

Its a 240B, and he was blowing into it. Its mounted on a Kawasaki Teryx
Those are some good video's of what not to do, natural selection at its best.
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:38 PM   #10
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Default Re: Gun safety

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Its a 240B, and he was blowing into it. Its mounted on a Kawasaki Teryx
Those are some good video's of what not to do, natural selection at its best.
lol I stand corrected. Front end of them both look the same to me. WTF was he blowing into it for, trying to get the smoke to come out?
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:00 AM   #11
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Default Re: Gun safety

Haha he was blowing dust off of the front of the barrel, we contemplated a test fire...but decided just telling him that was a bad idea was better.
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:49 PM   #12
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Default Re: Gun safety

I love how many people don't have interest/input on gun safety...
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:03 PM   #13
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Default Re: Gun safety

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Originally Posted by Full83size View Post
I love how many people don't have interest/input on gun safety...
Not even close!! My dad HAMMERED these rules into my head years before I was even close to big enough to shoot well.

I firmly believe there is no such thing as a Gun Accident. There is simply lack of judgement, lack of care, or just plain negligence. The consequenses are very high if you ignore or break just one of these simple, common sense rules.
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Old 08-17-2013, 03:19 PM   #14
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Default Re: Gun safety

TTT, if we get a mod or two, this should be a sticky in the gun/firearms discussion area...
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Old 08-17-2013, 08:42 PM   #15
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Default Re: Gun safety

I just watched a bear guard at work put the but of his shotgun on the ground and the barrel in his belly and use it as a pivot point to bend over and tie his shoe! Could not believe it. I mention to him that he should watch were he points his riffle and he said with an attitude, oh don't worry its not loaded. I have no idea how he still has a job.
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Old 08-18-2013, 03:17 AM   #16
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Default Re: Gun safety

Brilliant!
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Old 08-18-2013, 07:21 AM   #17
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Default Re: Gun safety

Awesome topic. I'm glad to see someone else that is as interested and passionate about safety as I am. Having been sworn law enforcement I have seen things that should have never happened. They can't be called accidents. They were incidents and mistakes that could have been easily prevented with some simple common sense, training and preparation.

Funny that this topic shows up this morning. I am visiting some family out of state and I have been given the opportunity to teach some gun safety to a couple of my younger cousins today (17yo). I was honored and pleased that they asked me to educate them rather than just going at the issue gung-ho.

I'd be pleased to see this become a sticky.....and some more conversation.....
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Old 08-18-2013, 08:02 PM   #18
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Default Re: Gun safety

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Another thing that ticks me off is when people clear a gun, and then incorrectly point it away and pull the trigger. A friend almost blew a hole through my garage door when he failed to clear the gun, and then jacked another round into battery.

So what are they supposed to do? If they actually cleared the firearm, pulling the trigger is fine, and should be expected. The issues is with people not properly clearing the firearm. You can bet, any time I pick up a firearm to inspect its functionality, I'm going to clear it, point it in a safe direction, then pull the trigger. Whether it be a buddies new blaster, a piece on display at a gun store, or my own safe queens or carry pieces. What's a gunsmith to do, or a person who has taken their firearm apart, and needs to make sure the trigger functions before they take it to the field?

I'm for: treat every gun as if it were loaded.

Some guns are not loaded.


That said, if you point any gun at me or mine I'm going to take it from you and we are going to have words. (unloaded or not, plastic toy or not) I'm not comfortable having any gun pointed at me.
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Old 08-18-2013, 11:25 PM   #19
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Default Re: Gun safety

Brook, you and I will have to agree to disagree on this. I completely agree that there are exceptions, however I disagree with making it a habit, every single time. And my peeve is specifically towards the people who do this without specifically and carefully checking to make sure there's nothing in battery. My friend would have blown a hole through my garage if I hadn't suddenly stopped him. Many people numbly open and close a bolt, rack a slide etc without properly checking the action, and then rely on pointing it in a safe direction and pulling the trigger. It is a training scar/flaw that must be corrected. You and I both know that if we're going to release a firing pin, then we need to make sure that we do not see/feel brass going into battery, whereas many people don't.

The problem is that many people get lazy (not saying you) when making sure the firearm is cleared, and then their muscle memory and practiced repetitions makes them release the firing pin. Three out of the ten personal accidental discharges that I know of we're done like this. These were people that have been checking their firearms like this for 20+ years. Don't misunderstand me, there are exceptions, but it can happen to anyone.
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Old 08-19-2013, 12:03 AM   #20
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Default Re: Gun safety

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Originally Posted by Full83size View Post
Brook, you and I will have to agree to disagree on this. I completely agree that there are exceptions, however I disagree with making it a habit, every single time. And my peeve is specifically towards the people who do this without specifically and carefully checking to make sure there's nothing in battery. My friend would have blown a hole through my garage if I hadn't suddenly stopped him. Many people numbly open and close a bolt, rack a slide etc without properly checking the action, and then rely on pointing it in a safe direction and pulling the trigger. It is a training scar/flaw that must be corrected. You and I both know that if we're going to release a firing pin, then we need to make sure that we do not see/feel brass going into battery, whereas many people don't.

The problem is that many people get lazy (not saying you) when making sure the firearm is cleared, and then their muscle memory and practiced repetitions makes them release the firing pin. Three out of the ten personal accidental discharges that I know of we're done like this. These were people that have been checking their firearms like this for 20+ years. Don't misunderstand me, there are exceptions, but it can happen to anyone.
It sounds to me like you two agree. That incompetence comes to play. When racking anything to be cleared, magazine out, and then careful eye examining the piece before the action closed. Safe direction, release firing pin. You're first statement made it sound like no matter what, never release the firing pin. This most recent statement, just describes the detail and care that should be taken before releasing the pin.

I'm 23 and have an absurd amount of guns. Most are bolt and just recently got into semi auto rifles. Plenty of pistols and recovers. As well as my share of single Shot. My dad taught me at a very young age every guy IS loaded.

That being said, I still paintball. So, where does that get me? Well, knowing that shooting someone without a paintball mask can be considered attempted murder, or some crazy ****, common sense comes into play.

I never ever point any gun at anyone.

Now how do I describe my exception?
Honestly, I do now know......

But you better believe, every action I can take to prevent a firearm accident, will be taken.

And I'm drunk, and NOT playing with guns.... They do not mix.
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Old 10-04-2013, 11:30 AM   #21
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Default Re: Gun safety

TTT, any chance we can sticky this in the firearms section?
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Old 10-04-2013, 09:19 PM   #22
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Default Re: Gun safety

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I love how many people don't have interest/input on gun safety...
It's not like there's room for friggin' debate on the topic
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