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Old 11-24-2006, 01:38 AM   #1
Full83size
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Default Looking for a sled. (questions)

Looking around for a sled. I have a pretty tight budget and I'm a cat fan. Currently looking at a couple. I need to know if a mnt. cat with a 440 fan is underpowered or not. I don't plan on doing crazy hill climbs and getting myself killed. I just want something to begin on and that can get me up some moderately steep stuff. I'm also looking at a ZL 500. I don't doubt it has plenty of power, the research I've done tells me that the ZL's 500 has just under 100 horses, but I'm just wondering if that is something that can climb decent w/ a 2" paddle or is the 121 just too short for moderate climbing. Any advice would be great. I kinda need to know by this weekend so I can buy a sled sat. Thanks!
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Old 11-24-2006, 03:13 AM   #2
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Default Re: Looking for a sled. (questions)

IMO the 440 is a little under powered for hillclimbing and serious rec riding. But,then I find my 700 to be underpowered at times. If you are a small guy, just riding around the flats and trails and dipping off in some powder you should do ok. Any kind of hills with powder, you will be wanting more power pretty quick. Powder just sucks up the power. I have seen some guys with 121's do some serious riding, but they were by no means beginners. The longer track will help you float through the deep stuff and climb.

My first sled was a 583 Ski Doo with a 136 1.5 inch track. By the end of the first year, I was seriously wanting a lot more engine, and track.

Good luck

Last edited by Odoa3; 11-24-2006 at 03:15 AM.
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Old 11-24-2006, 12:38 PM   #3
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Default Re: Looking for a sled. (questions)

odoa3 is absoloutely right....

Take it from a "Noob" ... i've ridden a 440, 550, 700's and 800's

If you are just gunna be "ditch banging" and putting around in somebody else's tracks a 440 will get er done, but wont leave you alot of extra horsepower... for example if you accidently get into a really soft drift or something, you may have to dig a bit... granted alot of this has to do with the track and the skills of the rider...

Personally i run a 550, its got PLENTY of torque for me.. but all i do is play on lakes and ditch-bang..

if you're gunna go play in the powder and really take on some "decient snow" i wouldnt get anything smaller then a 600 tripple or 700 twin... and ofcource bigger is better for this kinda snow


hope this helps
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Old 11-25-2006, 01:12 AM   #4
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Default Re: Looking for a sled. (questions)

triples yuck dont ever get a triple
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Old 11-25-2006, 01:24 AM   #5
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Default Re: Looking for a sled. (questions)

Quote:
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triples yuck dont ever get a triple
Why do you not like tripples?
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Old 11-25-2006, 04:32 PM   #6
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Default Re: Looking for a sled. (questions)

unless they are huge like a 1050 tripple then they can make up for how much they weigh ,dont get a 440 unless you are 95 lbs i would get a sled that is at least a 700 , you will keep trying to get more hp out of what ever you get , at least that is most of the people that i know . go big !
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Old 11-26-2006, 01:05 AM   #7
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Default Re: Looking for a sled. (questions)

Quote:
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triples yuck dont ever get a triple
triples are nice... in a stright line. i know a 680 ultra with triple pipes clutched and a few other things will smoke my xc 700 in a straight line.
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Old 11-26-2006, 02:21 AM   #8
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Default Re: Looking for a sled. (questions)

Quote:
Originally Posted by akeddie View Post
unless they are huge like a 1050 tripple then they can make up for how much they weigh ,dont get a 440 unless you are 95 lbs i would get a sled that is at least a 700 , you will keep trying to get more hp out of what ever you get , at least that is most of the people that i know . go big !
The yami 700 triple was lighter than most 800 twins...just the rest of the sled was heavy.
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Old 11-26-2006, 03:05 AM   #9
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Default Re: Looking for a sled. (questions)

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The yami 700 triple was lighter than most 800 twins...just the rest of the sled was heavy.
Yep, there is some serious beef in the tunnel! Plus the Yokohoma 141 track was metal lined or something ... the camoplast 144 is quite a bit lighter.
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Old 11-26-2006, 04:57 PM   #10
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Default Re: Looking for a sled. (questions)

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triples yuck dont ever get a triple
Um, yea...... ok....
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Old 11-26-2006, 05:05 PM   #11
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Default Re: Looking for a sled. (questions)

If you have a tight budget I would look for a 1m cat 600. They are very light, have enough HP to get the job done and you should be able to find one for around $3500. If you need cheaper than that I would look at the mountain max 700. You can get them as cheap as $2000. While they are not the perfect sled (does that even exist) they are really good for the money.

I would try to get at least a 136 or more if you want to do a lot of off trail stuff. What you need depends on what kind of riding you do and who you want to go with.
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Old 11-26-2006, 05:15 PM   #12
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Default Re: Looking for a sled. (questions)

STAY AWAY from [ARTIC CAT ]unless you like to make trail side adjustments and you like to swap out jets ALOT.
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Old 11-26-2006, 07:27 PM   #13
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Default Re: Looking for a sled. (questions)

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STAY AWAY from [ARTIC CAT ]unless you like to make trail side adjustments and you like to swap out jets ALOT.

Lmao, and this is based on...??? Let me guess, your brand is the best The 900 cat was/is the most reliable big bore yet to date. And with EFI (on the 600, 800, and 900's) you never have to jet...ever.

I'd look for a 1m 600 EFI or 600 edge RMK. Both should be found for around for $3,500. Although they're heavier, I've also seen some older 01/02 800 Mtn Cats for $3,500. With $1,000 you can take about 70 lbs off.
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Old 11-26-2006, 09:31 PM   #14
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Default Re: Looking for a sled. (questions)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddmonster@ View Post
STAY AWAY from [ARTIC CAT ]unless you like to make trail side adjustments and you like to swap out jets ALOT.
You have a lot to learn grasshopper.... The Cat EFI system has been around for ever and works very well. In fact I have a friend with a 99 powder special that has efi and once when he wiped out it sat and ran for almost a minute upside down.

Sure the skidoo stuff works well, but the cat EFI really is better, unless of course you think that a regulated crank case vacuum plumbed though a plastic regulator with a computer controlled solenoid, which regulates a vacuum to the float bowls is more reliable than a common fuel injector and high pressure pump.

Besides, I have yet to see a ski-doo run weekend in and out perfectly without at least once stopping just because it didn't feel like running. Ask ODOA3 how many times he has seen my ski-doo just quit until I pulled the plugs and played with it. In fact it even happened to Brady's sled the weekend we all went to willow when you where on my summit. It just stopped and didn't want to run.

In the end get off of the brand loyalty thing, there are plenty of good running cats, poos, yamis, and doos out there.
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Old 11-26-2006, 09:55 PM   #15
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Default Re: Looking for a sled. (questions)

Well, now that I've take my stab at the brand loyalists, lemme list a few sleds to avoid or fixes they will need:

2002 skidoos: The don't have the hoods around the needle jets and thus are impossible to jet correctly and go though fuel like you wouldn't believe. Only fix is different carbs.

2001-2005 skidoos: They have problems with the ring (yes there is only one) flaking and the pistons don't cover the exhaust port at TDC. Only fix for the rings is the doo chrome ring or aftermarket pistons.

2003-2005 skidoo rev: The bulkheads are weak, so if you get one make sure you get the 440 race sled bracing.

2005: 1000 skidoo: They don't have a t-stat and the computer retards the timing until it's warm. I'll leave it to you to sort out what happens. I'm told updates fix this.

Polaris 800s: They like to blow up cranks. There are good bearing updates for these, so get the pto bearing updated if you get one of these.

Cat < 2003: Cat didn't make a mountain sled until 2003, everything prior was a long track ZR. Stick with an 2003 or later 1m chassis if you can. Also, the older cats are pretty heavy.

Cat 2001 800: This engine is the first year and had piston problems. Cat recalled them and replaced all of the pistons. If you look at one of these make sure cat put new pistons in it, or better yet, get an 2002.

Cat > 2002: These sleds have very low handle bars, get a 2002 and get a clear tank and the mountain bars, much better setup.

Yami < 2000: They don't have a rolled chaincase so they don't work in the snow nearly as well as the 2000 or later.

Yami rx1: The 2003 has 8 tooth drivers and had track ratchet problems, not sure about the new ones. Also this sled is heavy.

That pretty much leaves the 600/700 poo, most of the newer cats, and many of the yamahas. If you want a doo then you will need to look into getting the updated rings and if you get a rev, make sure you get the extra bracing.

Keep in mind that I'm not trying to rate brands here, these issues are documented fact. If you don't believe me to look around a little.
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Old 11-27-2006, 02:25 PM   #16
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Default Re: Looking for a sled. (questions)

All this talk about 7 and 800's is not good advice. If you are just beginning a 440 or 500 with a 136" track will get you where you want to go and you will have a ball doing it. After a couple of seasons of riding ( when you are able to saftly out ride the sled ) then go get yourself a 700. To many people go out as a new rider and buy the biggest baddest sled they can get only to stack it up due to the inability to handle the thing. This is the same concept I see many preach on this board about wheeling a stock rig first and then upgrading after you get some time on the trails. Nobody wants to see a new wheeler out on the trails with a jeep and 38"s to start cause he is going to go out a flop it endangering himself and others around him. my opinion. Hope to see you out on the trail, I love to see new people out on the snow.
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Old 11-27-2006, 03:09 PM   #17
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Default Re: Looking for a sled. (questions)

find the best deal for the money you have. Whether it is a 440 or an 800. you will learn to ride within the limits the sled gives you. I have had multiple 440 revs and buddies have 440 polaris's. It is all in the rider. I have seen 440's go places where a 800 would not go. What is your budget?
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Old 11-28-2006, 07:07 PM   #18
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Default Re: Looking for a sled. (questions)

hahaha, well it looks like I went against most of the advice I've been given. My comp crapped out on me last week. Ha I bought a 99 thundercat mountain cat edition. It has 1900 miles on it and I paid $2100 for it. It bosts like 176 horses. I'm finding out a little to late that you don't want a carbed machine if you can help it. This machine needs some work. When I bought it it was garaged and warm and ran like a champ and like a bat out of un-heaven. When it got cold it starts but runs SUPER rich and wont stay running unless it's on full choke. Guy at the cat shop said it could be anything from bad adjustment on the choke cables going into the carbs to a scored cylinder that's dragging the engine down. The guy who sold it to me gave me a bunch of BS or so I've found out. One thing I'm not sure about is that he said it was had needdles for high altitude. How would I find out? Would that make it run like crap down low? I'm thinking about just having the cat shop in buzzard gulch (eagle river) go over it and let me know what kind of shape it's in. Or is that a bad idea? (hint hint don't want to get screwed over).
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Old 11-28-2006, 07:15 PM   #19
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Default Re: Looking for a sled. (questions)

Oh and by the way. I'm not into all this crazy stuff that people do. Not that it's stupid, it's just not for me. I want to go out and enjoy myself SAFELY. I've been riding machines since I was 12, it's more of a family thing of just getting out and enjoying the outdoors here in AK w/ a little bit of fun. Since I've been out of high school I've just gone straight to work and stayed there. Never got around to buying a new sled. But I do appreciate all the good advice. And I do agree that beginers should have a smaller sled. But in that case, I've grown up riding 5,6 and 700's. Most of the riding I've done is on flat and gradual climbs (like Eureka). So I wanted something a little highter on the performance scale. I've ridden allot of older early 90's pigs. So I have no idea how all this new stuff works. Sleds have changed TONS!
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Old 11-28-2006, 07:41 PM   #20
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Default Re: Looking for a sled. (questions)

I know a cat guy who works on sleds, if ya like I can get you in touch. He is out here in Chugiak.
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Old 11-28-2006, 07:57 PM   #21
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Default Re: Looking for a sled. (questions)

Here is some info. on jetting
http://www.startinglineproducts.com/...fm?articleID=6
http://www.snowtechmagazine.com/arti...e/baseline.php
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Old 11-29-2006, 07:55 AM   #22
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Default Re: Looking for a sled. (questions)

Here is the solution to the jetting problems:

http://www.holtzmaneng.com/holtzmaneng_a/page_2.html

What you want is the ATACC. It is a carb compensator which works exactly like the ski-doo dpm, but it's mechanical instead of computerized. I run one on my sled and don't have any problems with jetting. Once the base getting is set, the unit backs off the fuel for higher temps/elevations.

Overall that is a decent sled, but there are some things you will want to change:

1. ATACC with correct jetting.
2. Taller handle bars. I would look for a handle bar kit from a 2002 or later. It makes the sled much easier to ride since it is heavy.

As far as the engine goes, I doubt there is anything wrong with it if it is jetted rich. There are plenty of guys on the forum that know how to wrench on those, heck, I would be willing to give you a hand.

schu
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Old 11-29-2006, 08:31 AM   #23
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Default Re: Looking for a sled. (questions)

When John was running arctic cat out there he was the best cat guy/shop around, imho. Since been picked up by Polaris and I think he's outta the show by now, so I can't comment on their shop.
High Altitude JETS would make it too lean down low or really cold. I don't remember at the moment, but I thought the needle was for fine tuning... and only a clip position difference, not different needles.
I think SLP had a really good article on jetting, check the link above. You can't really hurt it running too rich, take your time and you should be able to dial 'er in. Get a good safe 'base' tune on it and you'll most likely be able to enjoy it all year w/o messing with it. It's the tunners and modders with twin pipes and/or looking to squeeze every last .1 hp out that re-jet all the time (and squeek motors if they're not paying attention). Don't set your jetting according to anchorage, conditions are rarely the same here as where most people ride.
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Old 11-29-2006, 11:37 AM   #24
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Default Re: Looking for a sled. (questions)

i got about 3 years with the holtzman tempaflow and never had a problem they work awsome i have installed a few on friends sleds now so far every one thinks they are great . but i have only had one year on the new attac but so far a big thumbs up ,
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:46 PM   #25
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Default Re: Looking for a sled. (questions)

Started using an ATACC last year on my Polaris RMK...works great
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