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Old 01-31-2014, 01:49 PM   #1
bigtex
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Default doubler mount

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/ford/...bler-tech.html

Dont feel like cross posting. Any input will be highly valued.
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Old 01-31-2014, 01:57 PM   #2
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Default Re: doubler mount

You my friend are lazy.... any info I have I will post on the other board in the chat box since I wont feel like cross posting it either.

Edit:

It is an easy fix I see in your future.

and why do we need to see that video of your daisy dukes again......lol
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Old 02-01-2014, 03:27 PM   #3
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Default Re: doubler mount

from start to finish, cliffs to come
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Old 02-01-2014, 03:30 PM   #4
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Default Re: doubler mount

The blue case is out of a fsb and Im only using it as a jig for the build up. It was pretty basic and straight forward. Split the case, yank the 4wd chain, cut the front output and bolt together. Gonna have a friend make the coupler so I can bolt the planetary box to the transmission. Im gonna have to build another cross member to support the main tcase. Even though its aluminum and light, I dont want to take the chance of the doubler setup ripping the transmission tail housing off.
The input of the front jig case and the planetary box are the same, 31 in and 31 out. I dont know how true it is with some of the other bw variations, but I suppose they could match if the cases came out of a fullsize application.

In the above pics, the two welds are the 4wd gear and part of the shift bracket. I welded the shift bracket because the case is now a high/n/Low so there was no need for the 2wd position. On the 4wd sprocket, I welded it up so the gear will act as an oil slinger in case the pump takes a ****. Here is the case bolted up and cut up. I also smoked a northern tool grinder cutting aluminum of all things, what the **** ever, its a throw away.

Ill get more pics when the coupler is built and then a vid of it installed and moving the truck.


The case i cut is the bw 1356 w/ a pto. It is an all aluminum construction, not all 1356's have the pto so I have the proverbial hens tooth. It took me a minute to find this thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan90FSB View Post
Whats this going? It's gonna be a long mutha, those 1356s are long cases and you're gonna have 2 of them now. Any concern on chain / case strength running a low range into the stock case?
It is going in the truck in my sig. I want the low low for more control when I find myself in sticky situations, which happeneds more often then not. Ive also decided to use the blue case to cut the overall length of the doubler and I will also be able to run a conventional two piece driveline vs a carrier bearing setup. As for chain stretch, Ive got a few spares so i will cross that bridge when I come to it.

Im trying to go as low buck as possible with this so the average wheeler with some ability will be able to make the same thing with out to much difficulty.
Current cost add up:

BW 1356 tcase w/ pto provision- 100

new price tally.

T-case- $100
Special adapter- $350
Total- $450

Im gettin it at the end of the month after the
upcoming yakima rotation. I'll post pics when I get it
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81 toyota w/ whats left of a service box and 38" swampers
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyot...lack-81-a.html
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/ford/...bler-tech.html
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Old 02-01-2014, 03:31 PM   #5
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Default Re: doubler mount

The blue case is out of a fsb and Im only using it as a jig for the build up. It was pretty basic and straight forward. Split the case, yank the 4wd chain, cut the front output and bolt together. Gonna have a friend make the coupler so I can bolt the planetary box to the transmission. Im gonna have to build another cross member to support the main tcase. Even though its aluminum and light, I dont want to take the chance of the doubler setup ripping the transmission tail housing off.
The input of the front jig case and the planetary box are the same, 31 in and 31 out. I dont know how true it is with some of the other bw variations, but I suppose they could match if the cases came out of a fullsize application.

In the above pics, the two welds are the 4wd gear and part of the shift bracket. I welded the shift bracket because the case is now a high/n/Low so there was no need for the 2wd position. On the 4wd sprocket, I welded it up so the gear will act as an oil slinger in case the pump takes a ****. Here is the case bolted up and cut up. I also smoked a northern tool grinder cutting aluminum of all things, what the **** ever, its a throw away.

Ill get more pics when the coupler is built and then a vid of it installed and moving the truck.


The case i cut is the bw 1356 w/ a pto. It is an all aluminum construction, not all 1356's have the pto so I have the proverbial hens tooth. It took me a minute to find this thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan90FSB View Post
Whats this going? It's gonna be a long mutha, those 1356s are long cases and you're gonna have 2 of them now. Any concern on chain / case strength running a low range into the stock case?
It is going in the truck in my sig. I want the low low for more control when I find myself in sticky situations, which happeneds more often then not. Ive also decided to use the blue case to cut the overall length of the doubler and I will also be able to run a conventional two piece driveline vs a carrier bearing setup. As for chain stretch, Ive got a few spares so i will cross that bridge when I come to it.

Im trying to go as low buck as possible with this so the average wheeler with some ability will be able to make the same thing with out to much difficulty.
Current cost add up:

BW 1356 tcase w/ pto provision- 100

new price tally.

T-case- $100
Special adapter- $350
Total- $450

Im gettin it at the end of the month after the
upcoming yakima rotation. I'll post pics when I get it

here is the coupler/adapter hooked to the range box. Now that I think about it, it probably been easier to do a ford 203 to the 1356. But those are hard to find around here and I wanted to do this for the **** of it.
How it will be supported, Im still trying to figure that one out. Im thinking about a 2-3" piece of rectangle welded to the top of the adapter with a 5"x5" plate on top of that bolted to the underside of the cab. With that plate under the cab, another piece of 5"x5" will be on top of the cab floor sandwiching the floor pan like an old school goose neck setup.
Am I over thinking this? If I am, feel free to comment.
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81 toyota w/ whats left of a service box and 38" swampers
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyot...lack-81-a.html
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/ford/...bler-tech.html

Last edited by bigtex; 02-01-2014 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 02-01-2014, 03:37 PM   #6
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Default Re: doubler mount

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halftamed94 View Post
Looks good. The reason you smoked the grinder cutting aluminum/ and or magnesium. Is because they are softer metals and will gum up your cutting wheels causing the motor to work harder. There for burning it up, will happen with the high end grinders too. A hack saw or band saw would have bin the way to go.

Oh and use caution if you try to weld to that case. One half is magnesium and will burn out of control.

You were right and I was wrong. The back half was magnesium and it almost burnt the guys shop down. He thought it was a cool project so he didn't trip balls over it thank God.

Side note:
I am doing this purely to see if I have the ability to show that any ordinary back yard mech. can build this setup. I'm not trying to make a product and push out any high end manufacturers with a low cost project.

Here it is all bolted up. Miss drilled one hole but not bad for 5 outta 6 with a hand drill. Thats a 38" interco that the doubler is sitting on, it'll cut my drive line length down almost 40". Imma figure out something for an extra support or cross member tomorrow when I mount it.

Here it is mounted to the truck. It hangs alittle low but I'm planning on slotting the holes 1" in both directions from the center of each bolt hole for clocking ability. This truck will have a somewhat flat belly when I'm done with this project. The other thing hangin down there is the factory skid plate, couldn't do much else so I left it there. Looking at it the bottom of the cab, I thought I wasn't going to have enough room for everything to fit. I had to use my bottle jack to push the doubler up into the cab but I ended up having enough room to put the tranny mount back in its spot. Everything worked out fine, I am super jazzed that I was able to pull this off on my budget and what knowledge I do have. I am pleased that this actually worked, the real test is when I get the drive lines done, fill both boxes and drive it. I'll post a vid when alls said and done.

new price tally.

T-case- $100
Special adapter- $350
Junk yard driveline- $75

new total- $525

Not bad for a back yard project. I lucked out with the drive shaft, it came from an 80 something 3/4 ford diesel with a 4 speed and a bw t-case variant.

Got a cross member to support the rear case done the other day. I dont want to post pix because a few of the welds are ****ing hideous. the mig machine took a **** and all we had was an arc welder that was older than me and as big as the flat bed on my truck to work with. There was a gap that I had to pile rod on to fill the gap, it's ugly . But if you want , Ill post it up. I may be able to at least cover the **** with multiple passes when the miller is back up.

here they are as requested.
I initially welded the cross member outside the truck on a bench with the stick welder.
I know the welds aren't pretty, but I have faith in them. Btw, the last thing to do is the shifter. I save that for last.
I should have had eric stitch the bottom of the plate. Other than that, whole truck is functional.
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81 toyota w/ whats left of a service box and 38" swampers
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyot...lack-81-a.html
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/ford/...bler-tech.html
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Old 02-01-2014, 03:41 PM   #7
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Default Re: doubler mount

The doubler has been performing flawlessly over the past months and did an awesome job holding up on the road trip to Alaska. Alot of the guys I used to wheel with in Wa were extremely jealous of my ****, even with their 4.7's and 203/205 setups. Now the problem is the transfer case seems to kicking the bottom bolts out and thru the mount. [486] had a good idea to put a trans mount under the adapter instead of the current setup. This isnt the first time this has happened even w/ rtv or loctite, I thought it was a fluke but apparently not. His idea seem pretty viable but there wont be a "torque" arm of sorts. Any suggestions? I want to do this so I wont have to **** with it again.


All the pics are in chronological order for the most part, same with the comments from pirate. Last two are the current problem. [486] from pirate suggested using an engine mount under the adapter, Im think of doing that or use a leaf spring busging and some plate I've got laying around. Ill post up a paint drawing in a few.
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http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyot...lack-81-a.html
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/ford/...bler-tech.html

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Old 02-02-2014, 07:02 PM   #8
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Default Re: doubler mount

Bigtex

The reason your spitting those bolts out the case is you have the rear of the assembly mounted solid and the motor on rubber I assume . with frame flex and motor movement something has to give. I would mount the rear section on two mounts near the frame and you should be good to go.

Cheers Ed
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Old 02-02-2014, 07:54 PM   #9
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Default Re: doubler mount

I wouldn't use a leaf spring bushing if your motor has stock mounts. Drivetrain mounts should have the same type of mount and maintain the same mounting pattern, just as a general rule of thumb. You want them to flex/give exactly (or as close as possible) the same to help prevent case cracking and other problems, such as the one you're running into. Motor mounts near the frame like Ed is suggesting should do the trick.
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Old 02-03-2014, 11:43 AM   #10
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Default Re: doubler mount

Quote:
Originally Posted by whatif View Post
Bigtex

The reason your spitting those bolts out the case is you have the rear of the assembly mounted solid and the motor on rubber I assume . with frame flex and motor movement something has to give. I would mount the rear section on two mounts near the frame and you should be good to go.

Cheers Ed
Only problem with that is my rear case has nothing to unbolt and make a mounting plate to bolt and sandwich to. Im wondering if a single motor mont under the adapter will suffice. A transmission only has one so that... GOT IT. Another tranny mount under the adapter to match the transmissions side to side movement. Now to figure out how to get it to bolt to the adapter, hmmmmmmmm.
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Old 02-03-2014, 07:06 PM   #11
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Default Re: doubler mount

Ok, i got something up to support the box. I used an old shock head that I welded to the adapter. I have an extra tranny mount but its way to wide so the bolts wont even thread in. The brackets that go to the shock head are 3/8" and welded up on the inside and outside so they definitely arent going anywhere. Hope this works and let see what happens.
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81 toyota w/ whats left of a service box and 38" swampers
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyot...lack-81-a.html
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/ford/...bler-tech.html

Last edited by bigtex; 02-03-2014 at 07:13 PM.
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Old 02-03-2014, 09:45 PM   #12
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Default Re: doubler mount

BT not sure I understand the shock bushing idea completely ? But what I was referring to was to cut the mounts off at he frame, and sitting it onto dampers or mounts .

But I'm sure you have it sorted
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Old 02-03-2014, 10:02 PM   #13
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Default Re: doubler mount

Tex, I have a couple spare bushings and sleeves if you want to give it a crack.
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Old 02-04-2014, 03:54 PM   #14
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Default Re: doubler mount

sure. The shock bushing is more or less a pivot bushing and I welded it up to the adapter. So far so good, imma pound it up this weekend and see what happens.
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Old 03-17-2014, 07:18 PM   #15
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Default Re: doubler mount

Happy to report that the mount is holding up WAY better than I expected. So far so good, time to build a better mouse trap.
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Old 04-07-2014, 01:48 AM   #16
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Default Re: doubler mount

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtex View Post
Happy to report that the mount is holding up WAY better than I expected. So far so good, time to build a better mouse trap.
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Old 04-07-2014, 10:54 AM   #17
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Default Re: doubler mount

And its already built. I also prepped this thing for the ford 203 or 205 considering I would like to go awd at some point. Here is my clocking jig if I want to clock the current case and add a massive skid under it. Whats cool about clocking the current case is that the holes only need to be drilled maybe an inch from where they currently are. Flat belly is comin.
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81 toyota w/ whats left of a service box and 38" swampers
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http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/ford/...bler-tech.html

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Old 04-19-2014, 07:01 PM   #18
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Default Re: doubler mount

Have you tried out the custom front shaft yet?
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Old 04-20-2014, 02:05 PM   #19
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Default Re: doubler mount

Ya actually and it spins true as **** too. Next up is im gonna re hash the mount and move it behind and underneath the case, the clock the case for a flat belly. I hve a spare trans mount to use so I may use it, but so far the hmmwv shock head has been holding up pretty good so far.
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http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyot...lack-81-a.html
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/ford/...bler-tech.html

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Old 04-20-2014, 03:04 PM   #20
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Default Re: doubler mount

That's great!
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Old 04-20-2014, 04:53 PM   #21
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Default Re: doubler mount

I am mildly surprised at how simple and well this things working

EDIT
When the old case took a ****, the fluid was grey, think liquified anti seize. So after i had the new case, I thought I should drain the range box. I was freaked at what might come out. Turns out the fluid hadnt changed colors from when I initially filled it in ft lewis. I did run into a problem tho, there was only a fill hole, no drain hole. So I used my vampire pump and more or less sucked the old fluid out and pumped in the new. I dont like the lever on the range box, it tends to pop out of gear with a bang. I may cover the hole in the floor, redrill a circular hole and do a land rover lookin range stick. Pull up for high and push down for low.
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