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Old 04-23-2005, 11:06 PM   #1
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The following is a quote taken from a trip report thread on this board, and defines a responsible 4wheelers point of view in great detail. I could not have said it better myself!

Some of the areas out at Eureka are pretty indifferent to how they get treated. The gravel river bottoms for example. They get rearanged and washed out every breakup. The heavy traffic trail on the ground stays but there is very little terrain on the river bottoms that can be adversely impacted by vehicles to any degree that matters. Other areas are senstive as hell. The hills with the thin layer of peaty topsil over gravel and sand for example. You may have noticed all of the "bypasses" where the ATVers didn't want to get their feet wet in the puddles, or where they wanted a smoother ride than climbing the rutted gravel. In a couple of years their bypass is as nasty as the spot they are trying to avoid.

I'm sure that you noticed how whooped out and just plain hammered a lot of that trail you took from the dozer in to Monument was just from the high levels of traffic that follows that route.

The uphill spot where you guys got stuck on the way in... That used to be the only route up that hill. Then the trail erroded so bad there was a deep rut that was imppasable to a lot of people. It was kind fun crawling up or down via the rut if you could do it. The ATVers started riding along side that spot after the other two routes they had blazed got all mucked up at the bottom . They killed the vegetation alongside this trail and the topsoil started washing into the rut. Now the rut is filled in with muck and you have a nasty uphill bog to get through if you take that route up the hill. Eventually it will all errode out again and you will just have a bigger gravel scar on that hill.

In the long run when the entire amount of land out there is factored in this spot is a pretty unimportant thing. The natural errosion out there dwarfs it. But it IS trail damage and it looks real bad to the greenies and even the semi-greenies (like Craig Medred of the ADN) who are pretty much opposed to all motorized access to our lands. They love standing beside a nasty bog for a picture to use at assembly meeting, commision hearings and such. You don't want to run scared of these guys but you DO have to be aware of them and their aggenda and how our actions can be used against us if we are not careful.

When you have a table top flat marsh with virtually no flow through it, there is not much errosion caused by blasting through it. (Most aren't as flat as they look though, and do actually have more water movement than you might think). But even IF there is no real long term damage done, it LOOKS terrible and it renders a winter or ATV trail for those users pretty nasty when bigger rigs chew it up. This is not good for relations with the other user groups, and if it is in a spot where non-motorized activist types can see it then it can have a bigger impact on politics and policies than it does on the marsh.

IF anyone in your group had indicated that they were going in behind the lodge before they left the trailhead where we were sitting with you, I WOULD have told you that wasn't the way to go. It never occured to me that anyone would make that choice, especially with stockish rigs that your group included. I was pretty surprised when we spotted you guys slogging your way from one stuck to another out there. I was under the impression that at least one of you guys knew the area a little bit and we expected to see you coming up the trail behind us in a few minutes.

It's not like anyone did anything really terrible and awful by chosing that route. It's just a situation that had better options. And as Curtis said you would of had a lot more fun if you had backed out of that spot.

4x4kid you need to get a better understanding of the issues we all have to be concerned with and of what the real point of motorized off road travel really is. It's NOT about finding the muddiest spot you can and seeing how much deeper you can dig it. There is usually a better way to reach the other side. Not always, but usually. Sometimes slogging through nasty mud is part of the game and most of us love it when that happens. But there is a lot more to it than that and usually that is not the position that you want to be in unless you've found a spot that it impervious to the effects.

I got stuck getting through a bog once and stepped out of the rig to find the body of a several day old moose calf that had gotten stuck and died from exhaustion right beside the tires tracks. Momma moose was still there trying to guard and protect it. Charged us a couple of times. Pretty sad stuff. Lots of moose die inthe first few days of their life but this one would probably have made it if that marsh it was in had not been chewed to hell by ATVs and 4x4s. You remember things like that.
Excercise some self moderation, or be moderated. I'm sick of all the *****ing going on here. This is a discussion forum, not a arguement forum. Discuss things. Have some manners, use some tact.

Here is a novel idea.... Dont post if all you have to say to the other members of this board is negative and hatefull.

Quit attacking each other.
Quit picking apart every trip report.
Quit dragging this board down with you. If you want to be a sour puss all the time, then do it somewhere else.

From this point forward. There will be no friendly PM's from me politely asking people to "calm down" or "relax". If you come to the board and find yourself denied access its because you were banned. Give it 7 days, and see if you have regained access. If not, well, guess you should have thought about posting that crap eh?

For those of you who are constantly trying to mediate, THANK YOU. Please keep up the good work.


I am offended by our members who consistently berate other members and cause general hate and discontent. It agrivates me when I feel obligated to go in and clean up a members thread because some jerk decided that it was the happening place to start in on someone or to preach their agenda. Cleaning out threads takes time that I would rather spend doing something else.
If you have an agenda, please feel free to start your own thread.


I left this thread open because I wanted people to be able to discuss this topic, and I want it to stay at the top of the list for a while.


Basically it boils down to this. I run this board becasue I want it to be a resource for all people who are interested in 4wheeling. When people post a thread here quite often it goes off topic, or turns into something other than what it was intended. This turns alot of people off, myself included.

When a person makes a thread here, I consider that thread to be their creation. Sort of like ownership to a point. That person should be given the respect, regardless of your opinion of them or their thread, that they deserve as a board member.

As a general rule, when you have something to say thats outside the general intent of a thread, start your own thread in a different forum, or take the comments to pm's. If you want to talk about how the trails in the area are being damaged by improper or overuse, start a thread about it in the trip planning and general discussion forum. Dont lay into the guy in his thread, or some other guys thread. Have some respect for the threads creator. If you dont respect them, then do it for me. If you cant do it for me, well... you wont have the opportunity to do it for long as you will soon find yourself denied access to this website.

When your reading the newspaper and you see a classified add for a 400 dollar truck and the guy is asking 4000 for it, you dont call him up and tell him he is an idiot. You just read the add, and think to yourself "man, what an Idiot" and go about your day. The classifieds section is not here for your amusement. Its for people to network and move their personal items. If they are asking too much for it, who cares. Their loss. Move on please.

If someone makes what you think is a silly or unnecessary modification and posts a thread about it in the tech section, dont be a jerk and post up some worthless drivel about how lame it is. Who cares. If its safe, dont worry about it. Move on!

If you think some member of this board is a bigot, an A$$*#le, or whatever, because of something he might have said on this board, dont wail on him and drag another thread into the gutter. If you have something to say to him, send the guy a pm or an email. Or better yet, just let it go. Its not our place to judge others, we have a hard enough time as it is to deal with ourselves.

Folks, lets clean up our acts, and represent our community properly. Let the infighting happen somewhere else. We have so much potential as a group to do positive things with this board that we cannot afford to waste our time arguing about petty differences. If the membership of this board cannot do it for themselves then the administration will do it for you. I do not want this. Trust me, the position several members of this board has put me in is not fun at all. Please make this job easy for me. Please.

We are all reasonable human beings capable of making good decisions. I want new members to feel welcome here! I want to enjoy reading the posts here. I want to enjoy running this board. People who interfere with these goals are not worth dealing with. I work 12-18 hrs a day, and do not have the resources or patience to deal with a bunch of bickering internet bullies, or drama queens.

Enjoy this board, and help me make it enjoyable for everyone else too. This place has unknown potential for the Alaksan 4x4 community, lets not limit it because we cant govern ourselves and act like adults.


Consider this discussion forum to be like my garage. I've invited everyone in the world to come in and use the tools available inside, because I enjoy sharing with the community, but request a few general guidelines be followed.

You can use the tools provided for building rigs, repairing cars, socializing with other like minded people, learning how to work on 4x4's, sharing ideas, or even tearing trucks apart to sell off the left over pieces, or whatever. For this to happen, I have asked that my garage be kept clean, and that you respect the other people using the garage. If you leave a mess, you wont be welcome anymore. If you make other garage users feel unwelcome, you wont be allowed back. If you break a tool, you are required to replace it, or you wont be allowed back. If you come into my garage, and anger me and other garage users by acting like a jerk, you not only wont be allowed back, but you will be shown the toe of my size 13 work boot. I have a hard enough time cleaning up after myself, much less cleaning up after other people.

Its that simple really. All I ask is that you give this place, and all its members the same respect you would give anyone if you were standing in their garage using their tools.

I didnt use my home as an example because I realize that people slip out with a cuss word here and there, and that some times conversations arent always about roses and what was for dinner, but about that hot chick you saw or the huge keg stand you did the other night. That said, if my wife and grandmother walked into the garage while one of these somewhat non-p.c. conversations was going on, I would hope that most of us would either wait for them to leave before continuing, or find a different location. That is what the Private Chit Chat is for.

So, in summary, all that being "banned" means is that your no longer invited back to my "garage". If you find youself at the door to the garage but the key wasnt left in the normal hiding spot, you'll know that I found that mess you left.

Try back in 7 days.


There is a fine line to be walked here. We, as responsible offroad enthusiasts, have a responsibility to speak up when we see something that is detrimental to our sport. If you see a person doing something illegal, or blatently tearing up the trail, something should be said. In private. WITH RESPECT. (you do not know all the details) If a this "responsible" person sees something that "might look like" something that might be illegal or irresponsible, they should politely ask the party involved for details, in PRIVATE. Bashing people in public does nothing positive. It only turns people away from the board and limits your ability to communicate with them.

I hardly post pictures or trail reports here anymore because I simply dont care for the way alot of our members act. Thats going to change. People may consider it censorship, or overmoderation, but I'm ok with that. I love reading trip reports and seeing the pictures people have taken of wheeling in Alaska.

Please help me maintain this board as a fun and beneficial place to hang out. If everyone posts with a bit of self-moderation and respect, censorship and overmoderation will never be an issue.

'03 SRW - Street/Race Truck build 66/483|Coffman UDC|BBi Stg 3's|Raptor 150|ATS Dual CP3|ATS Stg 6 Big Shaft|PCS TCM-2000|11.04@123.5
'03 Dually - Tow/Race Truck build 58/471 R700|PPE Dual CP3|Airdog 200|Flux3's|13.9@100 mph|667HP & 1326TQ

Last edited by bgreen776; 01-22-2009 at 07:36 PM.
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