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Prepared for Alaska!? Are you prepared? How have you hedged your bets for survival in Alaska? All threads related to being ready for the worst Alaska has to dish out belong in this forum.

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Old 07-05-2010, 09:16 AM   #1
RSOVJR
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Default Predatory concerns

I'm not talking Wolves, Bears, or anything like that.

I'm talking people.


I browse many different survival related sites and I have found many people who intend on shooting first, asking questions later... or shooting people who look "equipped" specifically because they consider them a threat.

This makes me feel sorry for people in the lower 48, because I honestly haven't seen anyone up here that even strikes me remotely that they would go into such a mode. This state is wonderful in the fact that there's a huge abundance of food both on the hoof and root, as well as a tremendous amount of terrain in general.

Has anyone here come across this type of feeling that preppers from other states seem to have more predatory characteristics than us up here?

Maybe it's the whole "boy scout" in me.. in the past when I have been able to, I have gone out and helped people on here who were stranded in the woods when their wheelers went south... people have helped me many a time on the trail as well and I am extremely grateful for it.

Alaskans in general seem to have a mindset of "mind your own but help those that need helping". I don't intend on sharing any of my personal supplies with random people... We've put the time and effort into ensuring our survival as a family and your emergency =/= my problem... but I will tell you that the creek down the way is still flowing and looks to be clean, and there's a berry patch on the other side that hasn't been picked over too bad yet... More than likely, you won't even end up knowing I'm better off than you.

Those on HERE that I have met, I would be willing to incorporate into the "tribe" so to speak because I know that most people on here are willing to work.. and that willingness to work means that we can work together, to ensure our survival.

Maybe I'm just reading things wrong elsewhere, but that's what kind of a vibe I have been feeling.

What are your thoughts?
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Old 07-06-2010, 08:10 AM   #2
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Default Re: Predatory concerns

I think half of Alaska would starve to death in 90 days if we were ever cut off from our supply chain. I work in distribution and it's my guess that the store AND warehouse shelves would be wiped out in 3 days. We have little to no food production of our own and while the bush communities would likely be able to feed themselves for the most part, Anchorage and Fairbanks would be screwed.

I also think that nice people can turn in to not nice people pretty fast when facing death from starvation.
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Old 07-06-2010, 09:29 AM   #3
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Default Re: Predatory concerns

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Originally Posted by tyrex13 View Post
I think half of Alaska would starve to death in 90 days if we were ever cut off from our supply chain. I work in distribution and it's my guess that the store AND warehouse shelves would be wiped out in 3 days. We have little to no food production of our own and while the bush communities would likely be able to feed themselves for the most part, Anchorage and Fairbanks would be screwed.

I also think that nice people can turn in to not nice people pretty fast when facing death from starvation.

I think you hit it on the head right there. let a man starve(or his family) for a couple days and he will turn into an animal. as far as facing predators(2 legged) practicing good OPSEC and staying off the beaten path should keep you safe. the further you are from a populace during a crisis increases your chance of survival from the golden horde.
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Old 07-09-2010, 03:06 PM   #4
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Default Re: Predatory concerns

Any big city is a death trap if it really hits the fan. Any yea, things are a lot different when you and your family are starving. I really hate that Alaska is not more self sufficient in terms of food production. I hate that so much prime farm land in the Valley is being converted to housing. Pretty short sighted if you ask me. That is happening all over the country. Sad.
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:20 PM   #5
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Default Re: Predatory concerns

My nieghbors are fat. In the movie "ALIVE" they went along time. I could go even longer. I wouldn't be bashful eating them. The Daughter is hot.
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Old 09-17-2011, 08:14 PM   #6
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Default Re: Predatory concerns

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Originally Posted by RSOVJR View Post
I'm talking people.



Interesting topic.
I spend a lot of time thinking about this. I can't believe how many people I've talked to.. good people, some my friends, some professed Christians.. who'll state that their disaster "plan" is to have a gun and enough ammo to "get" what they need. So your "plan", if I understand it correctly, is to be a looter. These are decent, middle class living in comfort, people talking this way. We can just imagine that less scrupulous people under duress will be completely unhinged.

I'd guess that there will be such chaos and violence that people will be more than happy to appeal to whatever acting "authority" to take complete charge, including managing whatever available resources. These available resources include the supplies that they'll say you're selfishly hoarding. What the looters can't successfully get from you, the "legal" authority will likely demand in order to redistribute for the greatest good (after is sifts through their corrupt fingers, of course). Then what to do? It's one thing to chase private looters away with the business end of a shotgun. But what to do about the Official Looters who come with full force of law?

I don't have the answers. The supplies that you stocked for the security of your family ironically become a dangerous liability. It's going to be a mess!
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Old 09-17-2011, 08:47 PM   #7
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Default Re: Predatory concerns

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It's one thing to chase private looters away with the business end of a shotgun. But what to do about the Official Looters who come with full force of law?
A thief is a thief whether they are from the government or private citizens. Protect you and yours accordingly .
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Old 09-17-2011, 09:02 PM   #8
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Default Re: Predatory concerns

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Originally Posted by yellowk20 View Post
A thief is a thief whether they are from the government or private citizens. Protect you and yours accordingly .
Right, but if the whole idea is to survive the ordeal then I don't know about locking horns with with a force of that appreciable magnitude. Once you're on the gov's ****list, realistically, that is NOT survivable.
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Old 09-17-2011, 09:23 PM   #9
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Default Re: Predatory concerns

well if someone takes all your supplies you wont survive anyways
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Old 09-17-2011, 09:49 PM   #10
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Default Re: Predatory concerns

LOVE thy neighbor...if he dont love you back, respect him and if he dont respect you back, square off and butt heads!dude mutual respect is key
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:36 AM   #11
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Default Re: Predatory concerns

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenoval View Post
Right, but if the whole idea is to survive the ordeal then I don't know about locking horns with with a force of that appreciable magnitude. Once you're on the gov's ****list, realistically, that is NOT survivable.
Green, I have to slightly disagree with that. In a legit SHTF scenario, local LE will be so busy trying to catch said looters that they will put "listed" individuals on their I made a note of it on the bathroom wall list.

Groups that can honestly trust each other will be those to survive. Training, preparation, planning- having backups to your backups.
Questions like:
What can I honestly do without?
What skills do my family/group need to survive?
How long do my plans account for?
Can I/we go "X" days/weeks/months- completely cut off?

There are hard questions to ask and those answers can be unbarable for a spouse and/or children who do not or can not fully understand the dire state.

As far as what you have becoming a liability, a little forethought goes a long way.
Case in point, my buddy wants to bury weapon/ammo/money caches with lat/lon coords. Each cache could be a liability if someone knows you know its there. So he started doing pieces- reloading componants were seperated for example. If dirtbag-X found cache No.1, big whoop. He got a handful of bullets only (sans case), some lead bars, fishing line, etc, etc.

The way he explained it to me made perfect sense; if you want reloading supplies you went to spots X, Y, Z. If you wanted to fix fishing gear, go to X, Y, A. It would take time to prepare but was darn near fool proof.
Keep minimal supplies around the house! One weapon, couple boxes of ammo- the stuff you won't loose sleep over if someone muscles it from you.

Alaska, Canada, "some" parts of the lower 48 would be ideal but I bet dollars to pesos these areas are being scoped out by individuals just like us.

Keep your powder dry, gentlemen...
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Old 09-21-2011, 08:27 PM   #12
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Default Re: Predatory concerns

How deep is it buried? If SHTF in the winter, is he going to have to pick down through 3 ft. of frozen ground to get to it?
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Old 09-21-2011, 08:59 PM   #13
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Default Re: Predatory concerns

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How deep is it buried? If SHTF in the winter, is he going to have to pick down through 3 ft. of frozen ground to get to it?
Huh, I'd have to say that would be a worse case scenario- but would too shallow be better than too deep? Depends on the terrain, how cold it gets, could you "water-log" a stash in deep running water and use a drag hook to snag a submerged line?

I'd saying picking a few feet of frozen earth would be a triffle to pay for not having something there to pick at.
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Old 12-30-2011, 04:53 AM   #14
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Default Re: Predatory concerns

i'm of the opinion that roughly 90 percent of the people out there would "Eat Each Other" in any general SHTF scenario because of how we as a country are today, our worst dilema is what to order at mcdonalds for lunch most of the time. now if that SHTF scenario included lose of power thats two seperate but major bag of worms to look into is : what happens to all the jails, detention centers and mental asylums ? and how can we talk and or identify people now ? so you would have people trying to stay alive, by any means they think are required, and bad people looking for a good time, with no hobbies, no medication and no scruples ... and they'll do anything they can physically do to survive. now me, myself i've thought about how to essentially turn my house into a small fortress, complete with what kind of weapon goes where ( assualt rifles or similar would be ground floor, shotguns by major entrances and hunting/sniping rifles up top) , where to store food, perishable or not, and what to do about sleeping/living/working areas and of course bathrooms or latrines and showers/baths and any medical supplies, now i'm down with helping an honest decent human being, making him usefull not just to others but to himself in that situation, but me, i'd also want to be ready for posibility of a group of guys sneaking around back to steel food, or anything usefull, or even possibly a group of armed people trying to "storm the castle" granted most people would fail at that due to not knowing much about weaponry, but say some bomb maker got loose or an arsenist ? and that's just the violent people i'm refering to, people will do ANYTHING, and all you have to do is watch 3 shows : any nightly news broadcast , jerry springer or any other " high reality" tv show like it, and Dumbest stuff of wheels, and you would see my point is rather sadly proven.

it would take
coordination
protection
teamwork
usable, identifiable skills
medical field training, mechanical repair/firearms repair, food/water storage and preparation
and the abilty to either gather supplies for said skils ( read up ) or find and or make them from natural sources ( a nice big bear fur would keep people mighty warm in winter) and above all, it would take someone who could think fairly quickly on their feet " oh ****, his leg is broken, here give me that Elk leg bone and that big leather belt so we can splint it as best we can " it would really be an adapt and overcome situation like no other, but with the first three items

Teamwork
Protection
Coordination

anything would be possible.
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Old 12-30-2011, 12:14 PM   #15
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Default Re: Predatory concerns

If nobody know you have stuff, then no horde is going to come after it. Low profile, don't flaunt what you have.
If power is out, don't have your castle all lit up... Only then will you have to defend it.

And if you are in the city... well, I am sorry. the only answer there is to get out. Only a matter of time before some random act of kindess/bad luck gets you hung out to dry. The city tends to breed like-minded people that stay in the city.
The country tends to breed like-minded people who stay away from the city, and don't want the city leaving the city.
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Old 12-30-2011, 01:13 PM   #16
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Default Re: Predatory concerns

Alaska probably has the largest military presence of any State, in relation to the number of people residing in the State. How do you think that would affect a SHTF situation. Could have some very positive affects like more of a force to maintain order and distribute whatever supplies are avalable. On the other hand, if things got really bad and there was a total breakdown then you have thousands of well trained military personnel doing anything they can to feed their families.

Alaska is definitely a state where weapons are plentiful and that could contribute to the chaos. I'm just saying if I had to "defend the fort" then I'd rather do it against some unorganized and untrained people from a large city who have only handled weapons a few times in their lives than some infantry personnel who just got back from serving in Afghanistan.

Obviously Alaska has a lot of big game but I would bet that after 100,000 starving people head off into the woods to get their next meal then those numbers would dwindle pretty fast. I'm sure there would still be game to hunt but it would be in places which are harder to access and the competition for good hunting locations could get pretty fierce.
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Old 12-30-2011, 08:56 PM   #17
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Default Re: Predatory concerns

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Originally Posted by Gazer View Post
Alaska probably has the largest military presence of any State, in relation to the number of people residing in the State. How do you think that would affect a SHTF situation. Could have some very positive affects like more of a force to maintain order and distribute whatever supplies are avalable. On the other hand, if things got really bad and there was a total breakdown then you have thousands of well trained military personnel doing anything they can to feed their families.

Alaska is definitely a state where weapons are plentiful and that could contribute to the chaos. I'm just saying if I had to "defend the fort" then I'd rather do it against some unorganized and untrained people from a large city who have only handled weapons a few times in their lives than some infantry personnel who just got back from serving in Afghanistan.

Obviously Alaska has a lot of big game but I would bet that after 100,000 starving people head off into the woods to get their next meal then those numbers would dwindle pretty fast. I'm sure there would still be game to hunt but it would be in places which are harder to access and the competition for good hunting locations could get pretty fierce.


the military could have any one of a number of affects, it could make things fairly safe and very coordinated and controlled in a best case scenario our lives wouldn't even really change except for some rationing and some things might cost more. on the other hand it could mean essentially little gangs or groups of people, military and civilian, armed with military tech, weapons and vehicles doing whatever they want to whomever they want.
as for the defending yourself, a trained soldier can be extremely dangerous, in any situation, but if you put up more force than s/he or the group they are with is willing to deal with, accuracy by volume, or just a BFG ( Big F***ing Gun) somewhere on the property going off, you might make them back off by intimidation.
depending on how desperate a random person is, they could be more dangerous as they would be infinitely more unpredictable and therefore much more dangerous.
as for the food, alot of people would sit and starve, or fall victim to their fellow man through a number of predations that are very real and dangerous, not to mention peope not being prepared for encounters of the Furred kind, in any SHTF situation.
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Old 12-31-2011, 07:42 AM   #18
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Default Re: Predatory concerns

My plan is this.

Place my family unit in a location that is easily defendable and would require some pretty serious effort to over run.

Vigilance and training for everyone. The only people that do not pull LPOP duty are the person awake in the house and the doctor. Everyone knows how to shoot correctly. Everyone has some Stress Inducing Training (my term), prior to the event.

When encountering a group, be it travelers/neighbors. Assume you are only able to see 1/4 to 1/2 of what they are bringing to the party.

Being cooperative with the people around is what will save you in the long run. Trade WILL be key eventually (none of us have the $$ to stock up a missile silo with 70 years of rations/equipment).

Stop all encroachments to your property LONG before they can be a threat physically.

If you decide to trade. NEVER bring the trader into your property. Bring the goods you are willing to trade out to the cordoned off area.

Eventually, you could set up a firpit and some tables and even a little shack to trade in/on. Do this in the cordoned off area.

Follow your instincts. If the situation feels weird. DO NOT progress with the interaction. Just be polite and excuse yourself.

NEVER allow yourself to be disarmed on your own property. Always have someone with eyes on the incoming personel. That person should be looking down the sights of a Select fire weapon.

Patrol your property daily. The entire thing and then some depending on your area.

Change your schedule regularly. Neve swap out LPOP/Roving Guards at the same time twice in a row. This is easily done by making 6, week long, random rotations ahead of time. Then to set the weeks rotation schedule you draw one of the five remaining weeks out of a hat (don't put your current week back into the hat). Changing your times by 30 minute to 1 hour either way really helps keep anyone observing your daily routine guessing. The more random the better.

I will type more later. Work and such
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Old 12-31-2011, 11:28 AM   #19
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Default Re: Predatory concerns

Interesting discussion.

People out preying on others in a SHTF scenario were already a-holes and crooks anyway before SHTF.

There are multiple "mini-SHTF" every year in the guise of tornadoes, floods, wild fires, ectera. Depending on the local economics of an affected area people respond and react in different ways. Most peoples first response (after seeing to their families safety) is to help their community.

Chruches, community groups, good samartians,.....government agencies (police, fire, N.Guard) are aways on the front line in SHTF events. No reason to not believe they will continue to do so. Having your own stores of food and equipment during an emergency can certainly help you survive and perhaps even allow you to volunteer back to the community in times of emergency.

What happens when that SHTF scenario destroys your home then whats Plan B? Do you get in line with the rest of the displaced, enlist as a volunteer, bug out and head to grandmas house, or do you start thieving?



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“Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.”
― Mike Tyson
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Old 01-23-2012, 01:58 PM   #20
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Default Re: Predatory concerns

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Interesting discussion.

People out preying on others in a SHTF scenario were already a-holes and crooks anyway before SHTF.

There are multiple "mini-SHTF" every year in the guise of tornadoes, floods, wild fires, ectera. Depending on the local economics of an affected area people respond and react in different ways. Most peoples first response (after seeing to their families safety) is to help their community.

Chruches, community groups, good samartians,.....government agencies (police, fire, N.Guard) are aways on the front line in SHTF events. No reason to not believe they will continue to do so. Having your own stores of food and equipment during an emergency can certainly help you survive and perhaps even allow you to volunteer back to the community in times of emergency.

What happens when that SHTF scenario destroys your home then whats Plan B? Do you get in line with the rest of the displaced, enlist as a volunteer, bug out and head to grandmas house, or do you start thieving?



To quote:

“Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.”
― Mike Tyson
No you do not get in line with the rest of the displaced. You find a family member, friend or even strike out on your own (as a family unit).

You do NOT ever go into the FEMA camps. Read up on FEMA and what they did to people after Katrina. It makes me sick.

You gather up all your goods and do the best you can. You never quit and you always look to make things better.

Churches etc etc will be there to play a part but in a total SHTF situation they will be run dry in no time.
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Old 01-23-2012, 05:45 PM   #21
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Default Re: Predatory concerns

a not so wise man once told me " when Soldiers go out to the field, for war or exerzises, they tend to morph into these creatures, its hard to explain it, but there are things they just stop caring about after 5 days without a shower" granted that is soldiers trained and training to fight, but if 5 days without a shower pisses off soldiers. what would normal people do ? alot of people here have posted some good information, but the primary thing to remember is when SHTF, people will be deprived of alot of things. everyone in the area it affects will undergo their own trauma's and injuries, mental and physical. PTSD from combat was explained to me as " you have just been in combat for XXX days, that's the equivalent of getting into disasterous car wreck every day for those same XXX days, or getting physically and mentally abused severely for that same amount of time". and that's for the guys who are trained to do the combat. between everything that people willingly do to one another that is unhealthy, not nice, or down right criminal, every day and then take away everything they know. they'd morph into their own little creature. with whatever previous habits and ailments that afflicted them before still applying now. if we are talking about a Nation or World wide SHTF. governments would collapse, or kill their own citizens depending on what country it is. federal help would have all went home to help themselves and their families. and i know this for a fact because in April or May 2010 when the US Army didn't pay us for a month, alot of soldiers up and walked off or didn't show up for those 30 days, and nothing happened to them because they had enough issues with their own house. we can wage a war against terror for 10 years but it takes us 6 months to help out our own cities when a hurricane hits harder than normal. and as many things as FEMA has done wrong, first you should look to see how long any agency took to actualy get boots on the ground in responce to any emergency. that alone will tell you that it's a " on your own with family and friends/like minded individuals" whenever a SHTF does happen. and that presents a major problem for us in Alaska, which is one of the reasons why i think as a whole Alaskan residents tend to be more self sufficient than most other states. yes i do realize that there are more than likely exceptions to that, but i'm talking as the whole State, not each individual person. human psyche is an interesting thing and you can learn alot and even be able to ballpark when and how groups of people will react to things. it's never an exact science, but it's all cause and affect, minus Newtons law's. in this case any action could result in an overwhelming devastating reaction all out of porportions. good example, play the "telephone game" then add violence and sharp objects and people with no hope or no morals, or both. i know i paint a pretty dreary and bleak picture, but i take my lessons from history. yes i do think there would be a few good samaritans out there, but i also think the bad samaritans and down right low lifes would continue to "be the reason why we can't have nice things". and because of all this, i think first thing after SHTF should be survival, short and long term. then after that's settled maybe try to find people you can trust, or build trust with others, make an Ad Hoc community out of it, that way everyone can contribute or learn to contribute, and hopefully you and your community or it's leaders be able to pick out the " this guys" of that particular scenario. and deal with them accordingly.
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:23 PM   #22
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Default Re: Predatory concerns

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Originally Posted by rednektanker View Post
A not so wise man once told me "when Soldiers go out to the field, for war or exerzises, they tend to morph into these creatures, its hard to explain it, but there are things they just stop caring about after 5 days without a shower" granted that is soldiers trained and training to fight, but if 5 days without a shower pisses off soldiers. what would normal people do ? alot of people here have posted some good information, but the primary thing to remember is when SHTF, people will be deprived of alot of things.

Everyone in the area it affects will undergo their own trauma's and injuries, mental and physical. PTSD from combat was explained to me as " you have just been in combat for XXX days, that's the equivalent of getting into disasterous car wreck every day for those same XXX days, or getting physically and mentally abused severely for that same amount of time". and that's for the guys who are trained to do the combat. between everything that people willingly do to one another that is unhealthy, not nice, or down right criminal, every day and then take away everything they know. they'd morph into their own little creature. with whatever previous habits and ailments that afflicted them before still applying now.

If we are talking about a Nation or World wide SHTF. Governments would collapse, or kill their own citizens depending on what country it is. federal help would have all went home to help themselves and their families. and i know this for a fact because in April or May 2010 when the US Army didn't pay us for a month, alot of soldiers up and walked off or didn't show up for those 30 days, and nothing happened to them because they had enough issues with their own house. we can wage a war against terror for 10 years but it takes us 6 months to help out our own cities when a hurricane hits harder than normal. and as many things as FEMA has done wrong, first you should look to see how long any agency took to actualy get boots on the ground in responce to any emergency.

That alone will tell you that it's a " on your own with family and friends/like minded individuals" whenever a SHTF does happen. and that presents a major problem for us in Alaska, which is one of the reasons why i think as a whole Alaskan residents tend to be more self sufficient than most other states. yes i do realize that there are more than likely exceptions to that, but i'm talking as the whole State, not each individual person. human psyche is an interesting thing and you can learn alot and even be able to ballpark when and how groups of people will react to things.

It's never an exact science, but it's all cause and affect, minus Newtons law's. in this case any action could result in an overwhelming devastating reaction all out of porportions. good example, play the "telephone game" then add violence and sharp objects and people with no hope or no morals, or both. i know i paint a pretty dreary and bleak picture, but i take my lessons from history. yes i do think there would be a few good samaritans out there, but i also think the bad samaritans and down right low lifes would continue to "be the reason why we can't have nice things".

Because of all this, I think first thing after SHTF should be survival, short and long term. then after that's settled maybe try to find people you can trust, or build trust with others, make an Ad Hoc community out of it, that way everyone can contribute or learn to contribute, and hopefully you and your community or it's leaders be able to pick out the "this guys" of that particular scenario and deal with them accordingly.
Regardless of the intended message, it's hard to get your point across when the grammar is that bad. I tried to space it out a bit for you...
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Old 01-23-2012, 10:11 PM   #23
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Default Re: Predatory concerns

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Originally Posted by Alaska ZJ View Post
No you do not get in line with the rest of the displaced. You find a family member, friend or even strike out on your own (as a family unit).

You do NOT ever go into the FEMA camps. Read up on FEMA and what they did to people after Katrina. It makes me sick.

You gather up all your goods and do the best you can. You never quit and you always look to make things better.

Churches etc etc will be there to play a part but in a total SHTF situation they will be run dry in no time.
Makes me sick to.

The gall of making all those poor people from the projects live in RV's and rented cruise ships.
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Old 01-23-2012, 11:54 PM   #24
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Default Re: Predatory concerns

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Makes me sick to.

The gall of making all those poor people from the projects live in RV's and rented cruise ships.
Those were maybe the long term living conditions but I highly doubt that was the standard of treatment for the first couple weeks or months. It isn't exactly an overnight deal to arrange mobile home housing for thousands of misplaced people. Those things have to be built and shipped to the areas they're needed. Plus, I'm sure not everyone who lost their home in Katrina came from the "projects," even if that idea does make it easier to see them treated poorly.
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Old 01-24-2012, 05:17 AM   #25
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Default Re: Predatory concerns

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Makes me sick to.

The gall of making all those poor people from the projects live in RV's and rented cruise ships.
You need to research more.
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