Blackjacks 8.7AK

[Blackjack]

So after four years of stellar service out of my basket case 8274, I decided that I wanted to try something different. I have taken apart that winch I dont know how many times trying to tweak every last bit of no load speed out of it. And fast it is, so fast in fact that the guy I sold it too asked if I could possibly slow it down a little. But as much speed as I gained on the top end, I only gained a small amount at full pull.

So my goals of this build are to strike a better balance between no load and full pull line speeds, increase overall pulling power and duty cycle, and improve its ability to take on the Alaska climate. This will not be a twin motor competition winch, but rather a hardcore sleeper that can be built with mostly off the shelf parts.

This build will be happening in several phases as time and materials permit.

So we begin with a new 8274 PN 38631.

[murphyslaw]

funny warn says the part number for the 8274 is 38631



just giving you a hard time

[Blackjack]

Phase one is re-power and re-lube. The current 8274 uses the Bosch series wound motor PN 39972. A lot of people call this the 8274-50 motor, but this is not necessarily true. The 8274-50 (which marked the 50th anniversary of Warn) came out several months before the new motor did. This motor, once dubbed BIC (Best in Class) was put into production when they introduced the HS series winches. It is a very good motor, but not without its weaknesses. It is prone to corroding between the brush plate and the motor case, as well as the brush end ball bearing.

So the motor I chose for the 8.7AK is not the 9.5xp motor PN 68608, but rather its brother PN 70865. This is a series-parallel wound motor like the 68608, but is used in Warns industrial line.

[Blackjack]

So the new motor should add a little over 500 lbs of pull, a solid two feet a minute increase in full pull line speed and much more run time due to its heavier windings (this motor is five pounds heavier than the 39972 but only two pounds heavier than the original prestolite used in the 70's). So to back this up I also replaced the solenoids with PN 68379. These are the solenoids from the power in side of the 9.5xp. The beauty of this is that they fit under the 8274-50 control pack cover with no mods needed. You can see in the pic the difference between the 68379 and the stock 72631.

[Blackjack]

So the items I am using for the re-lube are Roadranger SAE 50 Full Synthetic Transmission lube and Chevron Ultiplex Synthetic EP grease.

The 50 weight synthetic was developed specifically as the factory fill for Roadranger transmissions. With a cold pour point below -40F and recommended change interval of 500,000 miles in a Roadranger transmission, I feel this is the best choice for lubrication for the 8.7AKs gear box.

The Ultiplex Synthetic EP is a highly water resistant grease that works well at very low temperatures. The only two places that need grease are the dead end drum bushing and the brake pawl.

[Blackjack]

So with the new oil in (I put a little bit more that the six ounces that Warn recommends, but do know that some can run out until the oil level is below the drum seal) but before I bolted the motor on, I mounted the winch to my Jeep. The reason I did this is that with the motor off of the winch, I can easily grab the drum and see if I have the winch bolted up squarely. A lot of people complain about how bad their 8274 free spools as well as some complain that it draws a lot of amps under no load. This is typically due to two things, a poorly built winch plate, or a winch that is bolted to the plate in a bind. A few minutes of tweaking now will make all the difference later.

Once I had adjusted the winch to the mount, it was just a matter of bolting on the motor (hint: pull the clutch all the way into free spool and remove the clutch assembly before removing the old motor), and the control pack. I make sure to use a little NYK-77 corrosion guard on the motor posts before putting the boots on, and a little on the solenoid pack connections does not hurt either.

As you can see from the pics, other than a slight increase in gap between the control pack and the gear case, this thing looks just like any other 8274-50.

This completes phase one. Phase two will deal with increasing the motors water resistance better than it is now (which is better than what it was stock), and couple of tweaks to the gearbox and brake.

[Bernie]

Bunch of questions...You don't say why you chose this motor over it's brother, cost, build, waterproofing? Why these solenoids and not a mosfet or albright? No need/desire to remote mount the solenoids? Doesn't it take straight 30w?

[Blackjack]

Originally Posted by Bernie

Bunch of questions...You don't say why you chose this motor over it's brother, cost, build, waterproofing? Why these solenoids and not a mosfet or albright? No need/desire to remote mount the solenoids? Doesn't it take straight 30w?

I went with this motor because for a couple of reasons. First is that it uses o rings instead of gaskets to seal the brush cap like the XP motor. Second is that it does not have the finned end cap. Part of the premise of this build is that it is a sleeper and that end cap gives it away.

As for the solenoids I have two reasons, cost and serviceability. Contactors and mosfet controls are expensive and cannot be serviced in the field (unless you carry an entire spare unit with you). I can easily carry spare solenoids and change them out if needed in a few minutes. Remote mounting the controls is not a bad idea, but again takes away from the sleeper concept. I also have a pretty rigorous maintenance schedule which includes taking the cover off of the control pack and cleaning/inspecting all the connections. If after some use I find these solenoids are not up to snuff, then I will pursue different options.

Now about that 30wt. Yes Warn specs SAE30ND (non detergent) as factory fill in the 8274. I have spent a good bit of time trying to find something that outperforms the SAE30 in all aspects. The Roadranger SAE50 full synthetic has a lower pour point (-44F vs -24F) and was specifically developed for severe duty splash lube gearboxes. It operates in a much broader range of temps, and its additives help fight moisture and corrosion. I do not think that I could find a better lubricant for this application.

[Bernie]

Thanks for the reply, so it is unlikely that heat will be an issue. While this isn't Pirate, I know some clown will commnet about Alaska and cold...save it. Given that I see the other side of -40 once in a while I am going to do the same. Price difference between the two motors and can you get this configuration at an eletrical motor shop?

[murphyslaw]

sweet

[B-one]

eyes glued here. lol

[murphyslaw]

so how much would it cost one of us to do what you are doing, and how heavy is it going to be when done

[Blackjack]

Originally Posted by murphyslaw

so how much would it cost one of us to do what you are doing, and how heavy is it going to be when done

The motor and solenoids will put you back a little over $500. The Roadranger oil is about $46 per gallon which is the smallest container it comes in. Weight wise I am less than a standard 8274 since I am not using a roller fairlead or wire rope. The winch itself right now weighs about six pounds more than it did out of the box with the new motor and solenoids. I know that a overseas forums when talking about putting 9.5xp motors on recommend a brace, but it only weighs two pounds more than the original prestolite motor that Warn used in the beginning so I am going to just leave it as is for now and will see what happens.

[murphyslaw]

he chose the motor because it is a bit more waterproofing stock then the stock 8274 motor.

Originally Posted by blackjack

So the new motor should add a little over 500 lbs of pull, a solid two feet a minute increase in full pull line speed and much more run time due to its heavier windings

[Rdrash]

Good thread Blackjack....


Sign's of a true Gearhead one would definatly have to be "building a SLEEPER" winch!

[Bernie]

I thinking this is becoming my personal winch thread...so many questions. So, what would you do differently if it wasn't a sleeper? Gigglepin? cooling? Wider drum?

[Blackjack]

Originally Posted by Bernie

I thinking this is becoming my personal winch thread...so many questions. So, what would you do differently if it wasn't a sleeper? Gigglepin? cooling? Wider drum?

If money were no object, I would buy a G12HS from David Bower. http://www.dborc.co.uk/goodwinch/

That is truly a badass winch.

[enduro47]

You mention the 9.5xp a few times. I own one and know you work on these winches. Is there anything I should look for on my 9.5xp?

[Blackjack]

Originally Posted by enduro47

You mention the 9.5xp a few times. I own one and know you work on these winches. Is there anything I should look for on my 9.5xp?

If I could not run an 8274, I would be running an XP. Biggest thing is to make sure that it gets run once in a while and that if you are playing in the water that you make sure that the motor has completely drained. Mounting the solenoids away from the wet stuff helps too.

[kbeefy]

nice, I missed this one when it was first written.

Blackjack, update on winch? How's it holding up and what further upgrades have been done?

other winch bits....

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?sh...c=1522&hl=8274

[Blackjack]

The winch is fantastic. I have not had a chance to make any more mods. It has never batted an eye at anything i needed it for.

This fall I have was asked to beta test the new 12.0 Endurance, so the 8.7 is on hold for a little while. I will also post up a review of the 12.0 once I am allowed to. The only tidbit I can say is that the two are vastly different, but not necessarily in a bad way.

[astjp2]

Here is a good rebuild link on the 8274...

http://forum.ih8mud.com/winching-rec...-part-1-a.html

Here is another with some major repairs...

http://forum.ih8mud.com/winching-rec...lots-pics.html

Good reading. Tim

[gwilliamson]

6hp motors are so yesterday...........stay tunned

[astjp2]

Originally Posted by gwilliamson

6hp motors are so yesterday...........stay tunned

Ok, quit teasing!

[astjp2]

Its been a month and still waiting.....